We're back and we're ready for the next case of the day.
We'll introduce it with an anonymous phrase, which reads,
"It's better to cherish the memory of our loved ones
than to cherish their remains."
Bring out the litigants.
You'd never expect someone you've known your entire life
to surprise you with his actions.
Some things relating to life and death must be done
without hurting others.
Hello and welcome.
-Hi. -Hello.
Jennifer, you're suing Leonardo.
Tell me who he is, why you're suing him,
and what you demand in order to settle this case.
That's right. I'm Jennifer.
This man is my brother Leonardo.
I'm here suing him for $5,000.
I want him out of my house immediately
and I want the dishes, the entire dinnerware set!
Can you imagine?
Wait.
You want him out of the house, $5,000 and the dishes?
Yes.
The entire dinnerware set.
You bastard!
And the dinnerware set.
Well, tell me the facts surrounding the case.
This is very difficult for me because I'm pissed off at him!
He's so shameless.
I never would have expected this from my own family.
I'll explain.
About eight or 10 years ago, I decided to come from Venezuela
because my family and I met and we agreed on that
after my husband's passing.
I would take part of the money from the sale of a house
to come here.
Wait a second.
Your husband died in Venezuela?
Yes.
And you had a family meeting?
Yes, my parents, my brother, etcetera.
Yes.
You decided to sell a house? Whose house was it?
It was our parents' house. It belonged to them.
It was like...
It was the family estate.
-That's right. -Alright.
-So you sold the house. -Yes.
What'd you do with the money?
Well, we decided that I would come to the US.
We gave her the chance.
I came over here and started working very hard.
This happened eight years ago.
I used that money to make the down payment for a house here.
Step by step, very slowly, I made a name for myself.
I've worked very hard for eight years.
I also managed to save a bit
and I purchased some washers and dryers.
I opened a laundry
and managed to send my family money every month.
Aside from that,
I had to provide for myself in this country,
which you know is very difficult.
Here's the proof that this is my house.
Alright, let me see.
Here's the proof that this is my house and he...
It's yours, but you bought it
with the money from your parents' house.
I only paid the down payment.
Alright, yes, the initial down payment.
Just that...
Yes, the down payment. Great.
I've paid for it for eight years and I provided for them
Understood.
The deed proves it's your house.
Understood. What else happened?
11 months ago he showed up at my house.
Your brother?
Yes. Leonardo.
I don't even want to call him brother anymore.
This is a very difficult situation for me.
He came to my place. He settled in.
I let him do that.
I allowed him to stay there with me.
We were both sharing the house like siblings.
Suddenly, a month ago, a man showed up at the house
saying he's my late husband's son.
Carlos was the love of my life, he was my everything!
I couldn't believe it.
I knew I had to find out the truth.
This man had proof. He showed me a picture.
It was my husband.
After he showed up at my place,
I got in touch with my lawyers in Venezuela.
That's how I started digging around
and how I found out about the family mausoleum.
I needed to exhume my husband's body for a DNA test.
You wanted to prove
whether this kid was actually your husband's biological son?
Yes, because I couldn't believe it!
I thought my husband was a saint.
-I couldn't believe it. -He wasn't.
So what happened?
Well, while the attorneys were investigating,
I uncovered something terrible.
This man sold our mausoleum.
He sold it!
He removed our family's remains, our parents, our grandparents...
Oh, so your parents died while you were here?
When I came here, my mother had already passed away.
My father died a bit later.
I sent him money every month for his medications and their food.
I provided for them while they were in Venezuela.
So you found out he sold the family mausoleum?
Yes, I had no idea. He never mentioned it.
When this kid showed up at my place out of nowhere
and I asked for an exhumation,
that's when I found out that the mausoleum had been sold.
When I found out, I was very upset and outraged
so I called him and asked him what'd happened.
After all, he'd been in Venezuela.
We were the only ones left and one of us was to blame.
I was sure it was his fault! He sold the mausoleum!
He removed my family's remains, my husband's remains
and then he burned everything
and made a dinnerware set.
Oh, so that's the dinnerware set you're asking for?
Yes, I'm eating arepas on my mother!
I'm eating bread every day
on a plate that used to be my grandmother.
The beans I love so much,
I eat them off of my grandfather,
but you know what's the worst part and what I can't accept.
I drink my morning coffee
out of a cup made from my husband's remains.
Oh, ma'am! This is horrible!
To me this is a sacrilege.
We come from a family of Catholic values, ma'am.
He's a disgusting swine. He's so macabre!
And why are you asking for $5,000?
That's my half of the money that he made from the sale.
He sold the mausoleum for $10,000?
Yes, and he won't give me the money.
I need it and I want it. It belongs to me.
Now, my family, dinnerware set, my dead relatives are here.
Please bring them out.
Oh, you brought the set as evidence?
Yes, I brought my family.
Alright, Roberto,
let's see the dinnerware set made from her family's remains.
The family's together now.
We always wanted them to be together.
Those plates are soulless.
My grandmother isn't here anymore.
The family dinnerware set.
Yes, ma'am.
As you can see, ma'am...
-Be careful with my husband! -Be careful, Roberto!
Careful.
Here you have it, ma'am. Do you think this is a family?
How am I supposed to accept this?
We're a Catholic family. We were raised as Catholics.
Who has this man become?
He made my family...
Alright, I get it.
Is what she saying true?
Well, she's telling her side of the story.
Yes, but was dinnerware set made from your family's ashes?
-Our family's here. -Don't touch them!
I can give you the cup. That's your husband.
How do we know which one's her husband?
Well...
I'm sure all the ashes were mixed.
No, that wasn't the case here.
I'll tell you everything exactly how it happened.
Things were complicated, but we made it work. Well, let's take
Things were fine until the police shot her husband.
So then we decided to sell the house,
and we chose someone who would move to the US to...
-To sacrifice. -To pave the way.
-Excuse me, I let you talk. -That's true, so be quiet.
We agreed she'd come to the US and that she'd send us money.
How much did she take when she left?
$160,000 plus...
She took all the proceeds from the sale?
Yes.
Plus $15,000, which was what my husband left me.
Can you imagine?
You're making your own bed.
She didn't send any money.
I started working and smuggling things.
Things in Venezuela aren't easy.
We had to be armed where we lived.
Can you imagine?
Things are very difficult over there.
Two years later, my father died.
I was alone. I had to come to Miami.
I had nothing left in Venezuela.
I had to do something or I'd be killed.
I called my sister.
She'd answer the phone at first, but soon stopped
when I told I wanted to go to Miami and live in our house.
That's also my house.
It's my house.
Give him a second. Be quiet.
I'm sorry, but it's my house.
She changed her phone number and everything.
I had no idea how to find her.
I didn't know what to do
and the only property I owned in Venezuela was the mausoleum
where my parents were buried.
It was in a great location, so I got good money for it.
I used the $10,000 to pay for my ticket out of Venezuela
and some clothing.
Then, I showed up at her doorstep
because I knew her address.
You must've removed your relative's remains
after selling the mausoleum.
Yes, ma'am.
I removed their remains and I had them with me.
The ones that belonged to my parents...
I wanted to bring them with me,
but I couldn't travel with the bones.
I decided to cremate their remains and take the ashes.
However, then I thought about going through customs.
They'd probably think I was smuggling drugs
and they'd send me back to a Venezuelan prison.
I started thinking about it and I decided to make my parents...
My parents.
It's the same thing.
My husband.
I decided to make them all dishes
and I brought the entire set in a box to the US.
-Did you have any issues? -Nope.
I arrived at my sister's house and things were fine,
but then the arguing started
and that's when I told her how I'd brought our family.
Ma'am, these are soulless.
Well, so are bones.
It's nothing.
Hey, bones and ashes don't have souls either...
and neither do remains.
At least I could've returned to Venezuela
to put some flowers on their graves.
What's that you have?
This is evidence.
Bring it over.
It's evidence of the sale I made in Venezuela.
-Of the mausoleum sale? -Yes.
Half of the money belongs to me!
Really? That's impossible.
Hey, I hope you realize what you're saying.
It's my money too.
No, listen...
Think about what you're saying...
Now she wants me to leave her place, to give her $5,000,
and to give her the dinnerware set?
That can't be.
Our parents wanted the family to stay together.
I can give you the cup.
No! Ma'am!
They're all my family!
They're my family too.
Who has witnesses?
We both do.
Alright, let's bring out...
They're my parents.
Bring out the plaintiff's witnesses.
They're staying with me.
Hey, listen to me. Stop moving the table.
Ma'am...
The dinnerware set is going to break...
I'd die...
I'm warning you!
Leave the dinnerware set alone!
Don't touch my parents!
You're leaving my house.
Leave the dinnerware set alone or this will end badly.
I'm warning you.
Hello. Your name?
Hello.
My name's Jose.
I'm here to claim the inheritance my father left me.
I have evidence here that he's my biological father.
It's here.
We don't have a DNA test because of this...
The thing is that...
It's not...
Silence! Be quiet!
The witness is talking.
Thanks.
I went to her house one day because I had her address.
I went to ask her
for the 20% of the inheritance that belongs to me.
My mother currently has cancer and I need to help her.
I need to pay for everything she needs back in Venezuela.
20% of my father's inheritance belongs to me.
When I visited her...
What proof do you have that you're his biological son?
-He only has a picture! -Is this it?
I have the picture and that document that's in my name.
What document? You mean this?
Who made this?
That document has been notarized.
-Who signed it? -It's probably from Venezuela.
Did your husband sign it?
-No, ma'am. -Yes, he did.
-He did. -My father signed it.
What was your husband's name?
Carlos.
My father's name is there.
Okay, this says that he left a will in his name.
It says he's to receive 20% of his assets,
but my husband was Argentinian.
He died. I don't know about his family.
There's no DNA test and now it turns out that his pig...
Do you know his mother? This so-called Jazmin?
No, ma'am. I don't know her.
She's seen her pictures.
I'm not sure this kid is even his son.
Besides, my brother knew my husband had cheated!
Look, he drew a horned beast underneath my husband's cup!
How can this be? Would you like to see it?
My husband was a saint
and now these people want to make me think he was a cheater.
I understand what you're demanding,
but this doesn't prove you're his biological son.
She said we would do a DNA...
No, I get it.
There's no DNA because there's no body.
We know that.
and if he had a bank account in this bank here...
He did.
-Did he? -Yes.
Then this man is his son!
-That was our joint account! -That's his son.
The problem's that he's not the plaintiff.
Well, he can keep the cup!
If you want something from my husband's, take him!
Bring out the defendant's witness.
There's no money for you thanks to this sacrilegious fool!
No, you're in big trouble here.
You're the one who's in big trouble.
He can take the cup.
Quiet!
Hello, sir. Your name?
Hello. My name's Jesus.
I'm an artist, ma'am.
I work with pottery.
I've brought some of my work. The defendant is my colleague.
If I may...
Alright, but how is this relevant to the case?
Well, when I came here to the US,
I got the idea of starting a business.
A business?
This is madness!
It's not! It's art.
I want to start a business where we use human remains
to make sculptures.
Oh, I get it!
You want to open a business in the US...
We already have.
Oh, that's great.
So you're giving people the option
to have their loved ones' turned into art.
-Yes. -That's great.
That's not art. It's insane.
They're demons! Sacrilegious fools!
Jesus is your business partner.
He does the art.
-Yes. -Great.
Let's bring out the experts.
Professor Daniel Alvarez, an expert in Theology,
Pastor Marcelo Patrono,
and Mr. Angel Leal, attorney at law.
Okay.
Recently, the Pope made statements
regarding cremation and the disposal of the ashes.
Can someone explain?
The Pope reiterated what was said
at the Second Vatican Council in 1963.
It shows no opposition to cremation.
However, the Pope didn't write this document.
It was written by Gerhard Müller,
prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
and who's extremely conservative.
It doesn't explicitly state the Church is against cremation,
but if you read the document,
you'll realize it's against it, because the Church believes,
much like the three big monotheistic faiths,
that the body should remain intact for the Resurrection.
They see cremation as a kind of mutilation of the body.
They don't oppose it, but they are against certain ideas,
like the ones we're hearing about here,
regarding the commercialization of people's remains,
the use of remains as amulets,
and their use in homes as decorations.
Or ashes being scattered through nature, for instance.
Yes, because that's not based on Christian or Catholic beliefs
but on pantheism or naturalism.
In order words,
these ideas are incompatible with the Catholic dogma.
However, the official stance is that cremation is accepted
as long as the ashes are buried in a cemetery.
Now, they add that if the ashes aren't properly buried,
then it's cause for a Catholic burial to be denied.
You see?
Well, I disagree with what you're saying,
because this is also about common sense.
The idea is to not corrupt something as sacred
and important as the body of someone you love.
To be honest, we're not talking about a dogma,
because it's not a Catholic dogma.
I'm not speaking as a Catholic.
There's a reasoning that isn't dogmatic or biblical,
but it demands respect when it comes to these matters.
Honestly, making a dinnerware set from human remains...
There's a reason we call them remains.
The soul and spirit have departed.
We're tripartite beings, body, soul and spirit.
The remains are something that can be dispersed.
The Bible clearly states that,
"For the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible."
Regardless of where they are.
Jesus said Man was not meant to be enslaved to religion,
but that religion is here to serve Man.
That's right.
From what I've gathered, what he did,
he did it for his benefit and that of his family.
He put his interests first without disrespecting the dead,
which makes sense because he's alive.
I congratulate him.
So do I.
-He did something good. -I want to congratulate him too.
I don't see anything wrong here.
Our loved ones are with...
Besides, I've never understood that part of the Bible.
"For dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
What's the problem with ashes then?
It doesn't mention cups or plates.
Well, the thing is that there's a very important aspect here.
The Bible states that we shall not make graven images or idols
that will come in the way of adoring God, who comes first.
If you're thinking that the actual family is there,
then it's actually idolatry.
However, the family's not there.
Why do Catholic churches put remains in the church
when it might and will lead to idolatry?
Alright...
That's problematic.
Thanks for the debate. This is very good.
It's interesting and I think it helps us expand our knowledge.
Very well, Mr. Leal. Let's tackle this.
There's a will here.
Yes.
Is there a statute of limitations
when it comes to inheritances?
There's not.
However, there is a statute of limitations
when it comes to suing someone who denied you your inheritance.
That only applies if the money has been spent.
We're talking about the US. This was made in Venezuela.
We don't know if the same applies to Venezuela.
Yes, aside from that, he's an heir.
Yes.
In any case, he's not demanding more than he's entitled to.
I made it a point to ask this so we could learn something.
This young man is not a litigant in this case.
He's part of the case, because he's a witness,
but he's not a litigant.
I can't make a decision regarding his predicament,
but certainly, she has a very serious problem.
He can take the cup!
She has a problem
because she took money to which he is entitled
from the bank account.
That could be a fake.
My ruling!
You're leaving my house.
-I'm not. -Yes, you are.
I deny you your claim entirely.
Ma'am, this is my family!
Listen to me.
Look, your house is your brother's house too.
In my opinion, the other house was the family estate
and it was sold so you could get out of Venezuela
and come here.
You helped your family
until it stopped being beneficial for you.
I think that what he did was completely legal.
He had to get out of Venezuela
and the mausoleum was all he owned.
He needs to give me half!
What half?
What about the money from the sale of the house?
When you pay him back,
he'll give you your share of the sale of the mausoleum.
It's final. Case closed!
Be kind, be careful, get educated,
give respect to get respect, and may God help us!
See you next time and thanks for tuning in!
CC: TELEMUNDO NETWORK captioning@telemundo.com (305) 887-3060
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