[WHIP CRACKING, COUGH]
Lindsey: I'm Dr. Lindsey Doe. This is Sexplanations, and we are here in
Missoula, Montana where my friend Peter Musser has come to visit me. I have the
amazing opportunity to interview him about something I'm particularly
interested in: bi erasure. Please tell me what bi erasure means to you.
Peter: Okay, so when I think of bi erasure, I think of those times when I am just living my
life, either in like a queer space or a straight space because there's
definitely a difference between the two, and I try and be my very queer bi self
and people just choose not to recognize that. So that can mean either having a
partner who like gets a little squeamish around when I say that I'm also
attracted to men, or also attracted to folks of, you know, a gender that isn't
mine, or it can be when I talk to straight folks who are like, "Well, are you
sure it's not really a phase?" Although the nice thing about being 30 is I don't
get that that often anymore now that I'm getting older. Lindsey: They either don't see
your sexual orientation, they falsify it, they look at it negatively... It's just invisible to them?
Peter: Yeah, so it's like if I'm in a queer space, people assume that
I'm queer, like that I'm gay specifically gay, that as a man I'm attracted to other
men, and they conveniently or not so conveniently ignore the fact that I'm
also attracted to folks who aren't men. And if I'm in a straight space, partly
because of the way that I just happen to present, people assume that I'm straight
because I don't have the common tells that people expect when it comes to
being gay. Like my voice is a little bit deeper, people don't really see me as
presenting particularly effeminately, whatever that means to them.
Lindsey: And you said that as you've aged, that's gone away a little bit more.
Peter: Yeah, in some respects. So now that I'm older, there's less of that like, "He's young, he's still
feeling himself out. He's going to figure himself out eventually, but right now
he's just trying to like test the waters, whatever those waters might be." And so
like it was a lot more prominent when I was like 22, 23, 24. And it you know, after
me saying, "No I don't have a particular preference for men or women or
non-binary folk, like this is who I am, now people are starting to believe me.
Lindsey: Do you think that has to do with your age or do you think that has
to do with society's climate at large? Peter: Well, it could be both honestly. And it
could also be the fact that like I, as an old, grumpy, lazy person, I just get to the
point where it's like, "I'm going to surround myself with people who are
going to respect who I am. Knowing that I have that power to surround myself with
the people who respect me as a person is really nice, so that's a thing that I try
to do whenever I can. Lindsey: I do the same thing. I choose to spend time
with people who are sex positive because it lifts me up and reaffirms who I am and what I'm
doing, and I also think it's important to go into spaces where we push on each
other as human beings and have a dialogue with those who might not
understand us in such a fundamental way. So for people who are experiencing bi erasure
or for people who are bi erasing, what would you say? How can we be part of
the conversation and create safe space for you? Peter: I recognize that you know,
although I still have to confront bi erasure, like I still have a certain
amount of power when it comes to dealing with that. Like because I present the way
I am and because people expect me to be a certain way based on how I present,
when I go into places and I say, "Hey, actually I'm not the way that you think
I am." And I say that over and over and over again, people start understanding
that, "Oh, well actually maybe like, maybe he's not going through a phase."
Lindsey: One of the ways that you do it is by
using gender nonspecific language. Peter: Right.
Lindsey: And one of the ways that I can have conversations with people to call them
out on bi erasure? What would that be? Peter: I think probably the best way, if you are
not yourself bi, is like talk about how it's a sign of respect to others.
So let's say that you're talking to someone else about me and they say, "Oh, I wonder
who Peter's girlfriend is?" You can be like, "Oh, actually Peter's partner is blah blah
blah blah blah." Because that removes the gender specificity of who I might be
intimately involved with at the moment. It's tricky though, because like on the
one hand you want to make sure that people get the message across, but on the
other hand like you don't want to push them so hard that they're turned
off from the message that you're putting across. Lindsey: Where do you feel bi erasure
most in your life now? Peter: At this point in my life I'm fairly lucky
that I don't really have to deal so much with bi erasure. Up in Vancouver I've found a
really great community of people who are just the most loveliest of human
beings. We're just a big old queer pile of love, it's great. The topic of my
sexuality doesn't come up anymore because everyone's like, "Oh, Peter is
attracted to everything. [Lindsey laughs]
Peter: In the nicest way of course. But like you know,
because I have that kind of community and because Vancouver is the place that it
is, like I have a partner now who is just as bi or pan as I am. And there's no lack
of people like that in my circles right now. I am where I am after a long process
of trying to get here. And even though bi erasure doesn't affect me as much as it
did say five years ago... You know, when I was in the Navy and I was trying to find
a place where I could be queer, as much as I loved my friends from that time, the
term "bi spy" came up multiple times. I still felt like I was part of the
community, but I felt like in spite of that I always had something to prove. I
had to prove the fact that I was attracted to men. I had to prove the fact
that I was attracted to women. And you know, the way that men are socialized
these days, they're already socialized to prove a bunch of things. And so having
another thing added on top of that was exhausting. Lindsey: For me it's really important
that the community knows that we see them. Peter: Mm-hmm.
Lindsey: That there are people like you and I who are very aware and do our best to
increase visibility, not just participate in the invisibility.
Peter: So I guess the thing that I would want to tell people is that you know,
if you find yourself being attracted to folks who are like you and who are not like you, that's okay.
That is either going to be a thing that is going to be with you for the rest of your life
to some extent, or it's going to be a thing that changes, and that's totally fine.
Like we know that sexuality exists kind of on a spectrum, like this is a
thing that science has tested and that has been shown to be the case.
Like this is the thing that I know from my lived experience that sometimes I'm more
attracted to women and sometimes I'm more attracted to men, but there's always
the attraction to both. And obviously, sometimes I'm attracted to folks who
don't fit either of those. Like I would say my last two partners don't really fit
neatly into either of those boxes. Lindsey: No one does.
Peter: Yeah, no one does! [Lindsey laughs]
Peter: Which is great. And so like, if you find yourself with these feelings, be okay
with the fact that you have these feelings, you know. Sit with it. Think to
yourself, "What does this mean for me?" And you know, let your own life inform what
that means to you. Other people may tell you that you're a certain way, and unless
they're you, they don't really know. Lindsey: So to the people who have
erased bisexuality or bi erase...? Peter: Sure.
Lindsey: What would you say to them? Peter: Just believe people when they
tell you that they're attracted to folks who aren't necessarily what you would
expect them to be attracted to. Whether or not you're gay or whether or not
you're straight doesn't really inform who they are.
Lindsey: So Peter, because you're not invisible Let's not erase you. Where are you?
Where all the places of Peter? Peter: So I have a YouTube channel called
Stacks & Facts, where I talk about the joys of library and information science. You may
also recognize me if you watch Lindsey from another channel I did called
Go VERB a NOUN, where I interviewed her back in 2014. And Twitter @the_musser.
M-U-S-S-E-R. Be happy to hear from you.
Both: And don't forget to stay curious!
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