- The first question they asked and I'm like,
"I met the woman I'm gonna marry,
"her name is Kahmeela."
They're like, "Is she Jewish?"
I'm like, "Mmm.
"Her name is Kahmeela."
(dramatic orchestral music)
(upbeat music)
- We have been together for eight years
and we'll be celebrating
our seventh marriage anniversary next month,
next week. - Next week.
Next Monday. - Yup, on the 15th.
Am I going to tell it or are you going to interject
when I start telling it wrong?
- Yes. - Okay.
(laughing)
Alright so-- - I like that.
That's my favorite one, as the story goes.
- Dan had an arts
Art Dimensions Pittsburgh
was basically like an artist incubator in East Liberty.
They, East Liberty Development Corporation?
They gave him control of the old abandoned bank,
PNC Bank, over there by where Shadow Lounge used to be
and we had a mutual acquaintance
that introduced us where I was going over there
and I just finished shooting a bunch of photos
and Dan was looking for,
explain the setup of the--
- The round table?
- No, the room, like the-- - Oh, the room?
- The Euphony Lounge.
- Okay.
So we had done an installation in St. Louis,
Art Dimensions St. Louis,
which is where I was from before Pittsburgh,
and it was called the Euphony Lounge
and it was a,
just a multi-dimensional sensory kind of room
that had different lightings and different themes.
- Textures.
- Yeah.
So it was kinda cool to,
I brought that artist to Pittsburgh
to turn the vault of the bank into a lounge.
And we had various themes going along the walls
like money, politics,
sex, death,
love, religion, currency,
culture, whatever.
And then we would find things to fill it with
and we were looking to fill the love corner.
(Dan laughing)
So there's that and--
(Kahmeela chuckling)
- The photos I had done were like a bunch of pin-ups,
of love, photography. - Yes,
very tasteful pin-ups though.
So it wasn't like it was,
'cause we wanted it to be kid-friendly
but nonetheless that fit the bill.
And I also was looking for leadership
'cause I was not trying to do this by myself
and so I was trying to entice people
with this concept of artists of the round table,
'cause we had a round table in the lounge.
And I figured all I needed was five good people.
So I ended up with three good people.
(laughing)
Kahmeela was one of them.
- Well, so I,
he asked me to bring these photos in and I did
on a separate day.
He was on his way out
and he was like "Well, you can go ahead and put 'em up."
I was, "I've been thinking I'm just gonna drop 'em off."
He was like, "Oh, you can put 'em up and I'm leaving,
"here's the keys, just lock up behind you."
And I was like, "Okay."
So-- - Gave her keys to the bank.
She was like, "My whole life
"I've wanted to break into a bank
"and here it is, too easy."
Such a letdown.
(laughing)
- And so I put them up and left him a note.
And locked up and left.
And at that time
I was bartending at this place in North Oakland
and Dan lived a block away from it.
And that was his bar.
And so he came in there one day
and sat down.
He had a beer.
And neither one of us recognized the other.
He just--
(Kahmeela laughing)
- It's a lot of paint fumes in the preceding weeks
before these interactions. - He kinda looked
familiar to me but I was like, I don't know.
So he just sat there drinking his beer and then he left.
And then people started to try to introduce us again.
Basically we met three or four times
before we actually-- - Before it clicked.
- Before we were actually like, "Oh!"
- We know each other.
(laughing)
So there's that.
Yup.
Exactly.
(Kahmeela laughing)
And I was like, "So what's your story?" kind of thing.
Slowly but surely, she did go out on a date with me.
And so we consider it December 1st,
I guess. - December 1st
was the first official date.
- That was the first official date.
But there was lots of interactions going on before that.
I wasn't really trying to date her in the beginning
as much as I just kinda kept falling for her.
She doesn't believe it.
But I was just,
I was all business, I was all business.
She didn't know that.
- I just, okay,
I'm just going to put this out right now.
- Alright.
- That first thank you dinner
that we went to at Sharp Edge--
- Yes, yes. - You--
- We don't count that as the first.
- Yes, I know that's why I said,
that's why I call it,
what you're saying a thank you dinner.
- Okay.
- And you made some comment about our hands being as,
or I had long fingers or something
and then you held up your hand
and we held hands to get,
up like that.
- That's pretty smooth. - So...
(laughing)
And I was like, "Oh, let me see."
And you held your hand up to mine.
- Well there's a lot of small crevices
and spaces that had to be reached in the lounge
so I was just trying to figure out
if I could rely on her for her leadership.
- Right.
- You gotta get to the small places.
- Okay.
(Kahmeela laughing)
- So are they the same size?
- Oh my god.
I kinda have a middle finger on you.
- Just a little,
that played a little longer.
(laughing)
(smooth music)
- Yeah, I've dated outside of my race pretty much
since I started dating.
- Yeah, and I'm Jewish
and there's a lot of pressure
to date within the Jewish community.
The first question they asked when I'm like,
"I met the woman I'm gonna marry,
"her name is Kahmeela."
They're like, "Is she Jewish?"
I'm like, "Mmm.
"Her name is Kahmeela."
(laughing)
But I never really,
I guess after my bar mitzvah
I didn't really subscribe to it much any more, I think.
As soon as I got out of Kansas
which is where I'm from originally,
I think I've always kind of dated outside of my race.
But I've dated within my race too.
I don't really discriminate. - Yeah.
- It depends on
really whether there's a connection or a project.
(Dan laughing)
- As always. - Something like that.
- I've also dated inside my race as well.
(upbeat music)
Oh, my mom loves Dan.
Like lurvs Dan.
My sister does too.
- I'm their honey sunshine.
(laughing)
- So yeah, I mean, Dan,
he went about the whole proper gig of,
not really asking for
my mom's permission
but he made it a big deal,
made it a big point to go meet my mom,
go meet my dad, and meet my sister.
They don't live here in Pittsburgh.
And so he made it a big deal to go meet the family.
Even my grandmother before we actually got married.
- Mhmm.
We made sure they knew--
(laughing)
Who I was.
- [Woman] Brownie point.
- [Kahmeela And Dan] Right?
- All that good stuff.
It was great.
And we did the same thing for my family.
We ended up meeting up
with my brother and my dad, in Austin, Texas.
And they were both like,
"Why are you guys getting married so fast?
"You should wait maybe six years
"or something before you get married."
Or whatever.
(chuckling)
My brother was like, "Is she pregnant?"
(laughing)
I'm like "You are so classless, dude.
"Seriously? Really?
(laughing)
"Why can't you just be happy for us?"
- Right.
- So that was them.
And my mom is just so incredibly self-involved
that she just can hardly break away
from whoever she's dating at the time
to pay attention to who I might be married to.
So and that's okay, we're okay with that.
- Yeah.
I think it was like our wedding weekend
was when I met her?
- Yes, the last time we saw her.
(laughing)
That'll be seven years ago.
So there's two things to celebrate.
(upbeat music)
- Luckily, we've got really great friends
and that a lot of them are intertwined too.
It's not like we really have
too many of our own separate friends.
And so everyone's always been very supportive of us
and we have several couples that are friends
that live in this neighborhood
and we all help each other out.
They dog sit for us, we cat sit for them.
And we just, I mean, they're all great.
- Yeah.
And the service industry gives us nicknames which is great.
(laughing)
- We're DanKham. - Yeah.
(laughing)
So we got that going for us.
- I call him Danny if I'm getting sweet.
That's pretty much it.
- I like that.
- That's pretty much it.
- Yeah, love, I guess would be the shorthand.
I guess, if I don't feel like saying her full name.
(Dan chuckling)
Just love.
(smooth soul music)
- My first crush in real life that I remember,
I was probably seven or eight,
and it was the little boy down the street.
Kevin Nordhaus was his name.
(Kahmeela chuckling)
Little white boy.
And that would probably,
would have been my first inclination.
But obviously seven or eight,
what do you know? - Right.
- My first real boyfriend was Hispanic
and I was 15,
15 or 16 when we started dating.
But it's always,
and not like the celebrity crushes and stuff.
They were always very young.
It was like Scott Baio, John Taylor from Duran Duran,
Ralph Macchio.
(Kahmeela laughing)
So I kinda knew pretty early on.
- Yeah, I was gonna say that.
Kahmeela probably had posters of,
both, all races but basketball players and boy bands.
- Yeah.
There was a moment where it was--
- Always part of your decor. - Where it was like,
Ice Cube, Karl Malone, New Kids on the Block.
Like it was--
(laughing)
- Right.
And I think for me,
I'm not trying to take away from the two black people
and two Asian people that went to my high school
or middle school or elementary school in Kansas.
But it really wasn't until I was in an environment
in which I was actually exposed to multiple cultures
'cause Kansas was so beige
every which way you could possibly imagine.
And then St. Louis, when I moved,
before my junior year,
and it was just like culture overload.
It was great, five languages going on down the hallway.
And I just, anything that was different than what I knew
was attractive to me.
-
I mean the things we get to dress up as for Halloween.
(Kahmeela laughing)
I mean, pretty well represented in the media these days.
- Right.
- It was harder probably for our parents' generation.
(dramatic orchestral music)
(smooth soul music)
- Only that one time at Value City.
(Kahmeela chuckling)
- And there was the--
- I feel like we were profiled.
(Kahmeela laughing)
If you show up at Value City with measuring tapes.
We were there for a good hour,
nobody came and helped us at all.
We were just measuring couches and stuff.
- Right. - Nobody came.
- Nobody rolls in. - We were writing notes.
Doin' math.
(Kahmeela laughing)
Geometry. - Obviously,
these people came in to spend some money
but no. - Right.
- Yeah.
- So we ended up going to Levin Furniture.
(laughing)
- But never really too terrible.
I would get
crap from black dudes
if I was dating a white guy at the time.
But it was always,
it was never anything that was overtly,
I never really experienced anything
where I felt worried about my safety
or I was really hurt by anything.
- Growing up in Kansas,
there was a very xenophobic
thickness to the air, if you will.
So we definitely got harassed by police
in certain neighborhoods.
If they could figure out,
I'm not gonna equate it to the same kind of harassment
that people of color have to go through
but it was, it had certain similarities.
People painting a swastika on our synagogue
and wanting us to leave, that kind of stuff.
So that wasn't terribly uncommon.
And then, again St. Louis,
cultural diversity, very safe place, that kind of stuff.
So I thought, "Oh, maybe it's not the whole world.
"This is great."
Then we go to Bloomington
which is a very liberal place for college.
And yet as liberal as it is
and diverse as it is,
there's still a few swastikas and Jews get out,
that kind of stuff going on,
and so it was interesting
that I guess to a certain extent
Americans will always kind of see Jews as foreigners,
if you will.
And there's a certain amount of truth
that it is kind of like a race
because if your mom's not Jewish then you're not Jewish
unless you get into the theoretical
and philosophical debates about it,
which is fine.
We were raised reformed Jews,
we didn't tell our grandmother
that we celebrated Christmas
but we celebrated Christmas.
(Dan laughing)
I mean, Dad worked for drug pharmacies
so we had all kinds of great candy and Christmas trees.
But we also celebrated Hanukkah.
And I think it was just
our way of being kind of assimilated Americans.
That was the compromise my parents had to make.
But there was a lot of pressure at Sunday School,
and stuff like that,
where they were always telling us
how only 2% of the world was Jewish
and were endangered race and all this other stuff.
And they really throw in the importance of breeding within
which is just, to me, kind of absurd in general.
I don't feel like that's how biology works.
I think there's prosperity in diversity
when it comes to biology and other things.
(smooth music)
I mean the things we get to dress up as for Halloween.
(Kahmeela laughing)
I mean, pretty well represented in the media these days.
- Right.
- It was harder probably for our parents' generation.
- Right, yeah, before those--
- We get Archer.
- Archer and Lana.
Rick and Michonne.
(laughing)
- Carl!
(laughing)
- I don't know.
I think, well for you,
you discovered all of these hair care products.
- Oh the hair care products, right.
I mean there's a serious problem.
I'm so upset with Shea Moisture.
Can we just talk about Shea Moisture for a second?
- No! Stop!
- 'Cause I was, well just,
our own experience with it.
- Right.
- I'm Jewish, I've got the coarse Middle Eastern hair.
And so growing up they're like,
"Oh, you put olive oil in it."
Because that's what Jews do.
We put hummus and olive oil on everything.
(laughing)
And that's just life.
(laughing)
So that's what I did actually for a long time
until some kids from New Jersey made fun of me.
And after that I started using other hair care products
but nonetheless, I never really found quite the satisfaction
that I get from products that are marketed to
and sold to my wife.
(laughing)
African Americans, African American women, in particular.
We should know about argan oil,
we should know about shea butter,
we should know about cocoa butter.
This is what my hair needs.
Not animal fat and alcohol and all the other stuff
that they tend to sell white people.
- Right.
- So yes, white people need to know about Shea Moisture.
But the way they did their ad was horrible.
They should have had an interracial couple
and the husband discovering,
these are her stuff-- - Yeah, because--
- And getting in trouble for it
where I was told I'm not allowed to touch it
and to get my own.
(laughing)
- There was a certain cause for discourse
for a minute there,
like why, where is this all going?
I don't, I had my shampoo and everything,
just all situated
and then it's dwindling down very quickly.
And then I come and one day,
Dan just comes out reeking--
(laughing)
I was like, "Have you been using my Shea Moisture?"
He busted out, he's like, "It works for my hair!
"It's great!"
And also you've learned the importance of lotioning--
- Yes, lotioning. - Moisturizing.
- Yes, on my hands and stuff.
It's amazing.
I don't know if this is just something all guys discover
once they move in and domesticate.
- Once they get married.
- I think women always had the higher ground
when it comes to personal hygiene products.
Guys will use baking soda and Old Spice in every,
occasionally some Windex.
(upbeat music)
Do what makes you comfortable
'cause you have to live with your decisions and own them.
So if you're scared, I guess it depends where you're at
in relationships too.
If you're just dating and exploring then, yeah,
push your boundaries a little bit.
Do some trial and error
and don't just think you know something
without having tried it.
If you haven't tried and defined yourself
through trial and error then you're just fakin' it.
- Yeah.
And also make sure
that you're doing it for the right reasons.
That it's not,
that you're thoroughly,
you're truly attracted to this other person
and it's not just,
"Oh, I think I'm gonna try to date a white guy."
or "I think I'm gonna try to date a black girl."
- Yeah. - Do be, don't fetishize.
- Don't fetishize, right.
That's right, that's right.
- Well actually, when we first started dating,
I was kind of afraid that
that's what your game was
because we would always go to the Shadow Lounge
and but I kind of felt like you're,
just real quickly,
I felt like you were using me as a--
- For street cred? - Yes.
Like with all the dudes that, yeah.
Right. - Sorry.
- Like "See, look, I'm down.
"I'm dating a black girl and blah-blah-blah."
But it became very obvious and very apparent quickly that
that's not what your deal was at all.
- Right.
She asked me point blank,
"I'm not the first black girl you've ever dated?"
(Kahmeela laughing)
I was like, "Okay no, are you gonna need references?"
- I'm gonna need the receipts.
- That may not go well.
(laughing)
- But I have,
I have been the target of that fetishism.
I don't think I've ever actually dated anyone
that was into it that way
but I have,
there have been dudes
that tried to approach me the wrong way
like that with,
"Oh, I really would love to blah-blah-blah-blah-blah."
Insert ridiculously.
- There are signs for,
to catch a predator, if you will.
They start with, "I had never been with a--"
- Yeah. - "Fill-in-the-blank before."
You probably wanna exit that conversation.
It's an easy line for people to cross
and not understand what's the difference
between liking somebody with blonde hair
or what's wrong with having a preference for blue eyes.
There's nothing wrong with preferences,
but if what you're doing is,
like I had a list before I met Kahmeela.
My ideal woman.
And there wasn't a single physical characteristic on it.
And because you should really not be marrying necessarily
or getting serious with anybody based on the way they look
'cause it's gonna change.
I think I've changed the way I've looked seven times
in the seven years we've been together.
(laughing)
- Right.
- That's, I think the,
it's other things that make for a lasting relationship.
Again, if you're dating
and trying to figure out what you like in the world,
allow yourself, I guess, to follow your instincts.
You might be attracted to things for reasons you don't know.
But I think if you're going in it
to mark off a checklist
as though you are Noah
trying to fulfill your sexual ark if you will,
like right ahead,
I got one of those, I got one of those,
then that's just being a sexual predator.
- Yeah.
For me, the attraction was always,
it was different because,
it was the way that dudes approached me.
A lot of black guys, way back when I was still dating,
they would approach me with the same,
just sexualizing immediately
and just "Hey, Ma."
(mimicking men speaking)
But a lot of the white guys
that I have ended up in relationships with,
it was either we start off as friends
or they actually would ask me out for a date,
for a specific event or something.
So a lot of times--
- Here, I'll try.
- It also just depends on how I was being approached
and a lot of the things that I liked and enjoyed
were just kind of always considered white things,
and so, yeah.
- Our big connection,
the thing that was like the,
just cupid in the heart
like I have to know more about this woman,
was that she's a big fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
(laughing)
And I have a few cultural things
that I'm way into, a collector and a connoisseur of,
and Buffy the Vampire Slayer is one of them.
And what are the chances?
Well apparently, now that I've met her
and she's taken me to comic-cons and WhedonCons,
there's a lot of people.
I guess maybe it wasn't that special
but nonetheless it's one of the,
it's one of the glues in our kooky relationship.
(Dan laughing)
- Alright, this dude,
you gotta be good.
(upbeat music)
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