(keyboard keys clicking)
(relaxing Witcher music)
- CD Projekt is a uniquely Polish company,
so it seems fitting that their first game
would be based on a uniquely Polish piece of literature.
The Witcher 1 and Witcher 2 are no spring chickens,
but many of the people who worked on Wild Hunt
were here at the studio
when those first two games were being created.
Many more were simply fans of the games and books
before they came to work at CD Projekt.
So, since we're here, we decided to ask those folks
to cast aside their collective amnesia,
and let us know their fondest memories of working on,
and playing, The Witcher 1 and The Witcher 2.
(relaxing Witcher music)
- I was reading the books, and I'm a huge Sapkowski fan.
But then the game appeared on the market
and I was really waiting for it.
And I start playing with hope
that finally it will be like a really good Polish game,
and that I will feel the same atmosphere
like I had in the books.
And it was like that.
I remember that I fell in love with
the game from the beginning.
Like, hours and hours with that game.
And I finished it once, and then another one,
another one, another one.
And it was like a perfect adventure,
and it was really amazing.
Like it started with everything,
like it does everything.
- [Danny] What was it you liked?
What was it, the sort of the same rich Slavic lore
that was in the books, or was it the questing,
or the... everyone says atmosphere.
- Atmosphere, exactly.
I don't know how to explain that,
because what is atmosphere?
Like music, colors of the game,
maybe some plot?
But to be honest, if you want to point it out,
you'll know exactly what is it.
But it is.
Like, The Witcher 1 was the, in my opinion,
the most Sapkowski game, like, we did in CDP.
- [Danny] Very broadly speaking,
what was it about the first game that you enjoyed?
- Mostly the atmosphere, before anything.
I remember starting it over,
I don't even know if I can say that,
like, three times before I finally went,
all right, let's play this through.
I needed a little bit of time to warm up to it.
Yeah, just the atmosphere.
I remember being completely captivated by it.
You get back to it, you know.
You stop play, and I still found myself thinking about it.
Having the music play in my head,
and just generally the vibe of the place.
So dreary in some parts,
but, like, the nice kind.
It felt very, very authentic.
- [Danny] Did you watch the TV show?
- Yes. (laughs)
(man groans, dagger pulls from sheath)
The music was nice.
And some places shown in the show,
like some pictures of the forest,
some of the cities, it was nice.
But in terms of scenario,
wasn't good as music.
So, let's finish with that.
- You know, I love the books,
so I was very excited to see them being made into a game.
I love games as well,
so it was like a perfect combination for me.
I was super happy that the main protagonist was Geralt,
because when I heard about the game being in development
I was worried they would go for some other character,
not Geralt.
Because obviously, the book ended in a very ambivalent way.
There were some solutions they used in the first one
that I wasn't very sure about.
I wasn't sure why Yennifer wasn't in it, for example.
But when I played it first day, I really liked it.
I really liked it.
I was very surprised with
the high level of quality of the game.
Obviously, it had it's issues.
Like, I had this issue on my PC that every one hour
it would crash.
- [Danny] (laughing) Oh my gosh!
- And, you know, the loading screens were pretty long.
So I had to reload every one hour.
That was before any patches they did for Witcher 1.
- [Danny] Like 60 minutes?
- Yeah, because I played it right after release, you know?
And there were bugs.
And yeah, every 60 minutes,
like, on the clock, it would crash.
And I already knew, so I saved before.
And yeah, every time I would just reload and play again
because I loved the game.
So I was like, this is not gonna stop me from finishing it.
- [Danny] Speaking to the employees of CD Projekt RED,
it's easy to forget that all of this could so easily
not have happened.
The studio's been located
in the same industrial park in Eastern Warsaw
since before the development of The Witcher.
But even before they were tasked
with creating a game that people would enjoy,
they had to negotiate with publishers.
- We were telling them from the very beginning,
"Hey, we'll not give up the IP,
"we'll finance the project ourselves.
"We'll finance it for three years, we can still continue."
They didn't know that we are
going through the last remains of our money.
And, you know, the distribution cannot provide enough
already for a group of like 50-60 people per month.
That was a super stressful time for me in my life.
Because I was putting a lot of effort.
I was constantly traveling, they were flying here,
we were preparing for this.
You know, sometimes they had due diligence
that was lasting for three days.
At a sudden point I was getting a call,
and it was the call I was really waiting for.
And before I was like, "We need more time, blah blah blah."
So time is passing, we are burning through the money,
and then they call us.
"Hey Marcin, going alalalalalala," and then you know.
"I'm really sorry, however."
And, you know, you get it once, twice,
but you get it seven times from all the top names.
You think, are we doing something wrong?
Is there a much larger risk than we originally thought?
But the fact was that, a little bit like with banks,
when you have money, they're queuing outside.
But when you need money,
they never want to help you with any.
- [Danny] In the end,
it was Atari who came through with the deal.
A company used to publishing role-playing games,
and a company used to squeezing as much as they could
from those they worked with.
- It took me a good two months probably.
I think two months, to sign a heads-up agreement.
So a four-pager.
Because they proposed...
I mean we agreed on the terms and they sent something else.
That's the Atari school of negotiation,
which I learned the hard way.
Six months, I spent six months.
We had a weekly call, or even sometimes more often.
We spent... The legal bill was kind of small.
It was $60,000 to $70,000.
And we're tiny, you know, it was the first deal.
And even at the very end,
they wanted to extract some stuff out of that.
I still have the letter where we called their bluff
and we sent it to the management board.
Where we tell them that if this is the way...
Like in a very nice, polite way.
If it's the way they want to handle it,
we'll just walk away and wish them all the best of luck
with their future endeavors. (clapping hands and laughing)
That's lovely, yeah?
If that's what you want, fuck off!
And die in hell.
And we wish you the best of luck with your future endeavors.
- [Danny] After months of negotiations,
CD Projekt got an acceptable deal,
and work continued on the game.
And while the western markets may not have been sweating
in anticipation, in Poland, fans of Sapkowski's work
couldn't wait to get their hands on it.
A Polish-made video game about a Polish work of fiction,
playable in Polish.
- I played it in Polish obviously.
So I was also surprised with
the quality of the Polish dialogue.
Because at this time, we didn't have that many games,
you know, in localized Polish,
with very high quality of voice acting.
- I was hired as a designer,
and from the start I was working narrative.
But the company was pretty smart,
so pretty much every designer was working on everything.
So like, for example, I was naming the potions.
Or I was writing those little dialogues for community,
like Rachels, "Oh, it's raining,"
"Oh, it's raining again," "Oh, it's raining,"
"Oh, I think it's raining." (Danny laughing)
- In terms of it's geographical scope,
The Witcher 1 started at Kaer Morhen,
basically played out in Vizima and its environs
for the rest of the game.
So we're really talking about one city and its suburbs,
and a somewhat distant village across the lake
for the fourth act.
We did make sort of fundamental distinctions already
at the point, that the elves, who in Sapkowski's world
are an oppressed minority, to give them the Queen's English.
To give them RP accents.
We thought it was a nice foil,
to have these trounced upon but still very proud people.
The dwarves, just by virtue of fantasy tropes,
got Scottish accents.
Everybody else, it was either a marketing decision,
or it was an ad hoc decision made in the studio.
- We have numbers for each quest.
Like, you know, queue 101, queue 102.
We didn't use names because all the names
are always written at the end.
So, we were using just the numbers.
So, do you know what's happening
if I do something in queue 103 and in queue 134,
I will do the other thing?
Yes, in queue 501, you will have this thing.
- For whatever weird reason, one of the bigger moments
that stuck with me, other than of course the story,
is that one quest where the woman had
the monster in her basement.
The old lady, I don't know.
And the drunken section where he's trying
to steal the pickles and the lard.
That was really cool, yeah.
- I remember like a whole plot of Vizima outskirts.
It was really nice.
When I was thinking about what I would like to see
in that part of the Northern Kingdom,
it was it.
So, like the whole plot with the beast,
and with that fucking priest,
and those killers.
It was really nice, and it fits to Sapkowski's books,
And it was perfect.
- [Narrator] The game's based on a series
of best selling novels
by Polish fantasy writer Andrzej Sapkowski.
Unlike any other fantasy setting
that you've witnessed so far,
there's no good and evil in this one.
No fine line, you know?
Especially for our main hero, Geralt,
who was brought up and trained to be a witcher.
Professional monster slayer without any human emotions.
- [Danny] The Witcher sold well on their home turf
and in wider Europe.
But breaking the American market was difficult.
Marcin felt like it wasn't getting the marketing spend
required to get noticed in North America.
Soon after launch,
he attended a meeting with Atari in New York.
During lunch, he visited a few game stores in Manhattan
and spotted single copies of the game
stuffed onto the bottom shelf in the W section.
But regardless of the marketing,
the game was finding an audience
almost entirely through word of mouth.
- [Marcin] In the U.S., we shipped it, I think, in October.
In the first quarter, we were all disappointed, I think.
And then the game started getting awards.
And the second quarter of sales
was better than the first one.
This doesn't happen normally.
It just shows that they didn't push it enough
in the beginning.
So the organic pickup and word of mouth
kind of made it sell.
But still I think to U.S. it was considered more hardcore,
like Dark Souls kinda.
"Have you played The Witcher?"
"Yeah, it's hardcore shit, man.
"I'm tough, yeah?"
(Danny laughing hysterically)
- [Danny] The team attempted to bring the game
to consoles in the form of Rise of the White Wolf.
They partnered with French developers Widescreen Games,
who were coming off Eidos Interactive's
canceled Highlander game.
Sadly, for both parties,
it wouldn't be the last canceled game they worked on.
- They had a lot of good people,
but they signed the game
because they just lost a title with a publisher.
The publisher canned the title.
And, of course, you don't know it when you sign it.
So they were totally desperate to start it
but not fire the people.
And obviously in France, it's really hard to let people go.
When they picked it up, I think they really didn't realize
what they're getting into.
And Witcher 1 wasn't easy to port.
I mean, if it would be easy,
we would make the version ourselves.
Because it was all on the Aurora Engine,
so they couldn't use the tech in any way.
We tried to convert it ourselves,
but the conclusion was if there is someone with a tech
that can, on their tech, recreate the whole game,
let's do it.
And I think it was a bad idea from the very beginning.
It was like writing Witcher 1 from scratch.
So, yes, we probably were the only people
who could be able to do it,
but we wouldn't be able to develop Witcher 2 at that time.
- [Danny] Work was starting on The Witcher 2.
At the point, the distribution company
was still the cashflow generator for CD Projekt.
But they also had a porting and localization company
that was breaking even on it's own.
A small investment company for their cash reserves,
a tiny version of GOG,
and of course CD Projekt RED,
which was costing them a lot of money.
Of course there's no good time for
a continent-wide financial crisis to hit, but for CDP,
the timing of this one couldn't have been worse.
- We were over 300-350,
and I think at the end,
we were less than 200.
We had the Sacrifice of the White Wolf.
We are on the hook for a couple mil of dollars to Atari.
Distribution is folding.
We talked to all the VCs around.
I mean banks, yeah, it was a quick no.
But the VCs they were always, like, looking.
I still remember one discussion I had,
and they offered us
couple million dollar investments
like cash injection to the company.
They'd say like, "Hey guys, you probably will not make it,
"but yeah, If it's an opportunity we can give it a go.
"So we'll leave you 5% of the company."
And then with Michał and with the guys,
we are like, even if we have to announce bankruptcy,
we'll announce it.
We'll never take a deal like that.
But, you know, right now I'm saying it lightly,
I'm smiling, I'm relaxed.
But that was the hardest time of my life.
I'm a quite balanced person,
if it's stress I can cope with it well.
I wasn't able, I wasn't sleeping for days.
Like, we were talking before that
the brain plays tricks and can glorify sudden moments.
This moment in my life, cannot be glorified.
It was the worst stress I ever had.
Like, work related.
- [Danny] To survive, CDP would have to downsize,
and more crucially, focus.
They gave away the Czech and Hungarian
distribution companies.
They held on to the Polish distribution
and a small version of GOG.
And then started a protracted series
of conversations about investments.
They eventually found a partner,
and sold off a percentage of the company,
while ensuring they still had a controlling stake.
More importantly, they got access to the stock market,
which essentially made all their financial issues
disappear overnight.
They had access to credit.
They could ride the wave of the crisis
and keep working on The Witcher 2.
- You know, walking into this deal we had this idea
that unless you'll control over 60%,
you don't control the company.
No, you can control the company with 20%.
It all depends on the structure.
Not that I want to say that it's an ideal scenario,
because I would prefer to have 100%.
But it totally changed our perspective,
and suddenly we went into
this more serious funds environment.
Of course, I mean, we are a public company,
so many things can happen.
But we have full control over what we are doing,
and we are quite adamant about it.
(eerie piano music)
- [Danny] If The Witcher was reminiscent
of Sapkowskis short stories that concerned themselves
with the lives of common folk,
then it's sequel was more like the novels.
A saga concerning itself
with regional politics and conflict.
In, fact, you could argue that The Witcher 2
is two games in one.
As the central storyline essentially breaks
into two different games after the opening chapter.
The scope of Witcher 2 was totally different,
but the challenges echoed those of the first game.
Before they did anything else,
first the team needed an engine.
- The first feature was powered by Aurora Engine,
and it was really cool that BioWare helped us
with the first game.
But we modified the Aurora Engine significantly.
Sometimes we say that 80% of the code
was completely rewritten.
Eventually, we decided to develop our own engine.
With a clear goal that after the release of the PC version,
we're going to have a console game.
And it was because of the Rise of the White Wolf.
We failed with the Rise of the White Wolf,
but we won with The Witcher 2.
(eerie piano music)
- [Danny] The Witcher 1 sounds like
it was maybe your favorite game ever.
So, isn't testing a game a really good way
to make it not your favorite game?
You ruined The Witcher 2 for yourself.
- Exactly.
I think that The Witcher 2 is not as bad as I think.
(Danny and Bartosz both laugh)
- [Danny] What things did you like
and what things didn't you like?
- Music. (laughs)
It was nice.
And some small quests,
like I really remember the quest about
haunted hospital, and next the Flotsam.
It was really nice, and the horror atmosphere of it.
- For example, I worked on the succubus quest
that was used as a demo I believe.
You know, we've always wanted to make these quests,
these side quests, to make you feel like a monster hunter.
Like a true witcher, right?
Also, we were mostly focused on the main storyline,
and actually, you know, people pointed it out
that we could have used with more side quests in the game,
which we all agreed with.
So, this was like one of the occasions
where I could actually do this thing.
Because it was like a classic monster hunt.
There was a monster, nobody knew what was happening,
people were dying, you had to go on an investigation
and use your witcher knowledge to learn what killed them.
And then you also had this mortal ambiguity,
which is a common theme in The Witcher.
- I think that when you work on something,
and this something is The Witcher.
And if you work on it like three hours,
you have to think differently about each new installment.
Because it's impossible to repeat all the time
the same thing, even if it was successful,
because you are a human being.
You have to change it, you have to come with something new.
You don't want to just repeat
and do all the time the same thing.
So, I think that's the main reason why those games vary.
And when we started The Witcher 3,
it was after finishing The Witcher 2.
And we were tired,
and we were thinking,
"How about do Witcher 1."
And we thought, "Oh, maybe we should repeat some
"of those things that we used in The Witcher 1,"
and it was many, many years ago.
So it was like it never existed.
We forgot about this, we had to replay it again
and watch on YouTube to remember those things.
To recall them.
- We were very lucky,
and we were at the right time at the right place.
I was recently giving a talk to high school students.
I sort of compressed the story
after the break into nine lessons.
And one of them was about luck.
So I started googling, "What is luck?"
You can think about hundreds of synonyms of luck.
It can be karma, it can be gift from gods,
it can be being in the right place at the right time,
and whatnot, you know?
There's a lot of them.
But this one really was when
the preparation meets opportunity.
So that's, I think, exactly our case.
We were prepared to go through all the obstacles
and all the difficulties.
If we wouldn't really deeply,
personally care about what we're doing.
Because then you just, I don't know,
change the job, sell it, whatever.
It would be a calculation.
It was never a calculation for us.
(slow, eerie classical music)
(keyboard keys clicking)
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