You know how when you get kicked out of a
spot, they always say they're worried
about getting sued, or their insurance
not covering if you get hurt or
something like that?
I've always wondered: is it possible to
actually sue someone for skating and
getting hurt when you're trespassing? This
was a question I got from Nick_Gnar, and I
want to talk about it here on the
channel. Let's get started. Welcome back
to Rad Rat Video, the channel where you
can learn all about skateboarding and
skateboarding related topics, from
learning tricks on the Shred school, to
learning about skateboarding video games,
to all other kinds of skateboard culture
items. This time, we're talking about if
you can actually sue someone for getting
hurt while skating on their property.
This is something you've heard a million
times. I know I have. People are always
worried about their insurance and
whether you get hurt and you can
immediately sue them, and I wanted to
check out if it is actually possible to
do that. So I, of course, I'm not a lawyer.
I am a skateboarder and a web designer
who happens to have a YouTube channel, so
none of this is legal advice, but someone
who is a lawyer is Ryan Griffith, who is
from San Francisco where he's an
attorney, and someone asked him this
question and he had these two
interesting stories that helped
illustrate how the law would actually
work. So imagine there's a school, and
next this school lives this really crazy
dude, and he loves to see kids get hurt,
so he built a skate park in his backyard
and he puts little explosives in it. And
he goes to the school, he gives
out free skateboards,
and then he goes home. He's never invited
the kids onto his property.
He's never explicitly told them to come
skate it, but he's created this
possibility, and then he just watches
what happens. And the kids trespass on to
his property, skate his skatepark. These
little explosives send them flying all
over the place. Is he liable in that case?
They trespassed on his
property, right? Yeah, but obviously he
kind of made that a possibility. He made
that happen in a way. So that's an
extreme example. What about the other way?
He said, what if that same guy, he's not
crazy, he doesn't have a skate park in
his backyard, but he had
a little... his sidewalk has a little hill
on it or something. And kids like to jump
his fence and go skate down the hill. So
what he does is, he puts up a higher
fence, he puts up a sign that says no
skateboarding, and then someone breaks on
his property anyway and gets hurt.
Is that his fault? Obviously not. So it
kind of depends on the circumstances
that are in play, and how much you knew
about what was going on. All that kind of
stuff. And he also says that the law is
generally reasonable, and yes, there are a
lot of exceptions. I'll talk about some
of those at the end, but for the most
part, if it's obviously not your fault
that a trespasser got hurt, you're not
gonna get in trouble. But it gets a lot
deeper than that. Of course, being the law,
it's nowhere near that simple. "But out of
that meeting, I discovered that there
existed the California trial attorneys
Association, which kept track of all
liability claims and cases in California.
I spent $150 for a report that revealed
that in Southern California over the
period of time from 1970 to 1990,
there had been zero lawsuits involving
skateboarders suing public entities. None.
Eighteen different SoCal counties and
not one lawsuit. This was how I
discovered the HRA: hazardous
recreational activity list. An actual
list of activities, including tree
climbing and spelunking, that eliminated
a government agency's liability for
injuries sustained while doing anything
on the HRA list." That was taken from the
book "The Skateboard: The Good, the Rad and
the Gnarly: An Illustrated History." Pretty
interesting, but the idea that doing
anything on the hazardous activities
list immediately makes you liable is not
always going to be the case. First, that
was only in California. There are other
states that have very similar laws, but
that one was only in California. And
secondly, it only specifically calls out
government entities, so if it's private
property, it might be a little bit
different. Specifically, there is
something called an 'attractive nuisance.'
So you may have heard of this before.
It's where, if you have a pool -- I think it
has to be below ground -- or trampoline,
there have to be fences around it
because it's an attractive thing that
kids might go by and say, "oh look at that
pool." They go in there, and they drown, and
that would be your fault in the law. So
you have to have a fence. You have to
make it difficult for
people to get into these things that
might be dangerous. So does that mean you
can just put up a fence around your
property, throw up a no skateboarding
sign, and you're good? You can let people
skate in there all they want and just
ignore it?
Well not exactly. It's never that simple.
You do have some limited amount of
liability for trespassers, even on your
own property. You may have heard before
that if a burglar breaks in your house
and gets hurt, they can sue you. That's
sort of true, sort of not, but there is
something to be said for that. So if you
have... let's say, in your backyard, there's
a shortcut to the park and people cut
through your backyard all the time to
get to the park. And yes, they are
trespassing. It is illegal for them to be
doing that, and you'd rather they didn't
do it, but you know about it. You can't
set up a gun range in your backyard and
be shooting all the time, knowing that
people come through there. What you would
have to do is put up a fence, and to put
up signs that say 'dangerous gun range.'
All that kind of stuff, and warn people
as much as you can, and then you can use
your backyard to have a gun range. With
the burglars for example, if they stub
their toe stealing your TV, you're fine.
But if you set up a trap to specifically
hurt that person when you're not in
danger, then that would be illegal. So for
a spot like Hollywood high, let's say,
they put up fences all over. I've driven
past it. I've never actually been there,
but I'm sure there's no skateboarding
signs all over the place. They try to
stop you as much as they can. In that
case, they're probably safe from any kind
of legal repercussions of someone
getting hurt there. I would say there's a
very good chance that they will never
get in trouble for somebody breaking in
and hurting themselves. So why is
everyone so paranoid about getting sued
if someone gets hurt? Well I've found a
quote from the David Arnell, who's an
attorney, and he's talking specifically
about skate parks. But this is what he
has to say: "The fear of liability has
prevented private and public entities
from encouraging or allowing risky
recreational activities, despite
liability limiting statutes passed by
legislators." And the reason people are so
paranoid is because there's a million
stories out there, especially online.
Lawsuits that went, and all kinds of weird
stuff. So what I found, for example, was:
there's a kid in West Virginia who went over
to his neighbor's driveway and got hurt.
It wasn't a skateboarding related, but
the kid got hurt. Their parents sued the
neighbor, even though they weren't even
there, and the neighbor had to pay for
the medical expenses for the kid. Now who
knows how true? Any of that is, and
usually there's some other kind of
circumstance. There were toys in the
neighbor's driveway, or they invited him
over before, and then they weren't there.
Something like that. There's usually
something else going on, like the
McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit. You all
know about that. Someone orders hot
coffee, spills it on themselves. They sue
McDonald's and get millions of dollars,
right?
Not exactly. So there's always something
else. In that case, what happened was, the
Health Department had warned McDonald's
that their coffee was unsafe. It was too
hot. And they ignored it. And they ignored
it, and so yeah, she spilled on herself and
she got millions of dollars. But
McDonald's appealed, and all they really
ended up paying was her expenses for the
most part. So yeah, there are these crazy
cases that make it to the news, but
usually there's something else going on,
like that attorney from the beginning
said: the law is generally pretty
reasonable. So I haven't been able to
find any cases of someone hurting
themselves skateboarding and suing. But I
have found some very similar cases and
I'm gonna talk through a few of them.
They'll usually sound like they're
pretty close, but then when you get into
the details ,you'll find out the real
reason. Alright so the first one here. So
this one is about a kid suing a middle
school for a skateboarding accident, but
what actually happened? So what happened
was, the staff in the school left
skateboards out in the gym. The kid got
hurt, broke his ankle, but what they
actually are suing for is that they made
the kid walk on his broken ankle to go
get ice for himself, and they refused to
let him call his parents. So that's what
the actual lawsuit was. It's not that he
tried to grind the curb and twisted his
ankle. He actually got hurt, and then they
were neglectful in the way they handled
it. This next one is: skateboarding in a
parking lot leads to a half million
dollar settlement.
And of course, there's a lot more to it
than that. So this one is about these two
very little kids riding on one
skateboard, and they're in a parking lot.
The parking lot was angled downhill, and
they ended up down in the road where
they got hit by a car. One of them hurt
and one of them killed.
So the lawsuit was not necessarily that
they were skateboarding in the parking
lot. The lawsuit was that, to the city,
they had no "children playing" signs. There
was no sidewalk for the kids to end up
on, or shoulder. They had to
end up in traffic, didn't have a choice.
And so they're suing the city for that,
and not suing for s"kateboarder getting
hurt." The last story was about a kid who
got hurt skating at Target. What happened?
Did he try to grind the handrail out
front, and it shot out and hurt himself?
No, it was a little kid inside the store.
He grabbed the skateboard off the shelf
jumped on it, did some stuff, and ended up
hurting himself really bad. And there were
suing Target, not necessarily about the
skateboard, but about having dangerous
things available. And that was what the
question was about: whether they're
liable for having, you know, hammers and
other things that people could hurt
themselves with. And I didn't see how
that case turned out. They never updated
it or anything. I don't know if it got
thrown out or what, but it doesn't really
matter. It still cost Target money to
fight this lawsuit about skateboarding,
and I think that's the real concern here.
So let's assume that, when someone throws
you out for their insurance or whatever,
that that's the real reason. Part
of it is, they don't want kids skating in
front of their door where old ladies
can't go in, because they're scared. You
know, it costs them money to have people
skating there or whatever. If the real
reason is because they're worried about
their insurance and their liability,
there's a very small chance that you
would ever win a lawsuit, but you could
still file one it could still cost them
money to do that. So I think that's
really the reason why, you know, people
always trying to protect themselves and
their own interests which makes sense. So
that's what I was able to find. If you
have found any specific lawsuits about
skateboarding at a spot and getting hurt,
let me know about those below. I was not
able to find any that are just a kid
doing a trick and getting hurt, but if
you found any, let me know about those
below. Until next time, here are some more
videos I did recently that you
might want to check out. I also have my
logo on the screen right here. You can
tap that so you can keep learning new
things about skateboarding three times a
week. Thanks for watching.
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