Look! It's the Prophecy Brothers!
Starring Brother Man
and Brother Champion.
They are brothers.
They are unorthodox.
David Daniels asks: "Is the 'World's Oldest Bible' a Fake?"
Man: Good Evening, and welcome to the Prophecy Brothers.
I'm Brother Man, and joining us tonight
is the honorary Prophecy Brother, Auntie Oligarchy.
Welcome, Auntie.
Auntie: Thanks. Man: Well, we have a special guest on.
Of course, all our guests are special.
But we have a real special guest on tonight.
And that's David Daniels, from Chick Publications.
And we're gonna talk about this. And here's a question
that I posed to our audience and everybody:
"Can you trust your Bible?"
David says, No, unless it is the King James Version.
And so we're gonna talk about that.
David is the author of many books. We're gonna talk tonight about
his book, "Is the 'World's Oldest Bible' a Fake?"
He's also written the book called, "Hot Topics,"
"Did Jesus Use the Septuagint?" "How They Changed the Bible,"
"You Don't Know Jack," and I guess I'll stop there.
We're the Indiana David Daniels fanclub here,
with all the David Daniels books.
So thank you for joining us tonight, David.
David: It is my pleasure.
Man: I think that somebody or something doesn't want us
to get this information out tonight, because we had some technical issues
trying to get this going. We had some sound issues.
So we're praying, and you said a prayer
before we started, that hopefully everything will keep working here.
Let's get started.
David, your book, and there's a lot in here,
and obviously to our audience we're not gonna be able
to go over everything tonight.
That's a good thing, because David doesn't want to go
through everything tonight. He wants you to buy a copy of the book
and do the research yourself.
Your book makes an argument that says the world's oldest Bible,
something called Codex "Sigh-nay-ticus"--
I mess it up. We had it down before. "Sigh-uh-nat-icus."
"Sigh-nay-ticus"
David; "Sinaiticus." Auntie: "Sigh-nay-it-icus"
Man: "Sigh-nay-it-icus" Alright. I'll forget it later.
Anyway, your book says it's a fake. When they claim it's the oldest version,
what textual critics mean, or the experts out there,
if they say it's the oldest, it's also probably the most accurate.
Can you briefly tell us what this Codex Say-a-niticus is,
and who are they that claim that this is the most accurate
version of the Bible?
David: Well first, let me show you an 80%-sized
replica of the Sinaiticus. Can you see it all here?
So it's a little bit taller and a little bit wider.
This is a codex. A codex is simply a giant, bound book.
This book has giant Greek letters. Can you see that?
Man: Yes. Auntie: Yeah.
David: Those are called "uncial" letters, or "majuscule." Whatever.
It sounds like song. "Maj-u-scule..." (to the tune of Majesty)
Nonetheless, this is a big Greek text that looks like a really old-style
Greek text. When this was discovered in 1844,
a man who was a textual scholar named Constantin Tischendorf
claimed that he had found something amazing.
But he told nobody until 1859. In 1859 he got the majority of this.
And then he put it together and published it,
and gave it the name (because it was from the
"Sinai monastery" or from the "Sinai Peninsula,"
St. Catherine's monastery, he called it the "Sigh-nay-iticus" --
"Sinaiticus." The Codex Sinaiticus Petropolitanus,
because he got it printed up in Saint Petersburg -- petro-poli-tan.
So this book, he claimed, was actually older than
the only other one that they had "dated" [as oldest]
which was the Codex "Vaticanus," called that because
it's in the Vatican.
Tischendorf believed that this book here
would help you to figure out what was in the actual, original
copies of the scriptures. So that's why he said
that this was so important, and he passed it off
as being genuine.
Now, why would people say it's not genuine?
There's a little trick you need to learn about what he did in 1844.
In 1844 he told a whole story which I will not go into.
You can read it in the book. And it's well-known.
You can see it on every website, even on Wikipedia you can see it.
He claimed that he found in a trash can,
getting ready to be burned, 43 folia.
A folio is a full page like this, which has two sides to it,
a front and a back. That's a folio.
43 of these he was able to take with him
back to Saxony, in Germany, basically, and have it published.
He called it the "Codex Friderico-Augustanus,"
named in honor of Frederick Augustus, who gave him money to
go on the trip, which is what you do.
And he showed this, not in the regular public,
where everybody could see it. It was kept with the king.
And then he published his own copy, where it was printed up with letters
that looked like it, but weren't photographs.
Because it is 1846 when he got it out.
So he's not gonna have a bunch of photographs yet.
So then he has this published. But then he comes back in 1859.
(I'm skipping 1853. That's in the book.)
He goes back in 1859 and he gets the rest of this stuff,
and takes that to Russia. That stuff he gets and does again,
he has those big letters copied, makes little [end letters],
so it looks a lot like the pages that are here, pretty much,
but it's the text that he printed. So when you looked at it,
you wouldn't see the actual pages. You see regular printing pages
of a book. The reason people say it is fake,
can be seen on the cover of the book, itself.
And you can show this however you want to do that. Man: We're gonna show a picture of that.
David: Absolutely. You'll look on here, on the cover, and you will see
that there's a bunch of stuff that's a brownish color,
which looks -- old. Then you see this other stuff,
these two little strips here, that look white.
Why could that be? Well, it turns out
that when Tischendorf looked at it in 1844, the pages were white.
They're still white to this day. The pages that he took out in 1844
and took to Germany, they're still white to this day.
It turns out also that in 1845, another guy, Porfiry Uspensky,
who actually was over the monasteries, and was an expert in texts,
saw the rest of this as a book, checked it out, and
it was ALL that color [white]. And he says it was.
However, 1859, when Tischendorf took the rest out,
suddenly it looked old.
The only way that you could tell that, is if you were able to see
the stuff in Germany and the stuff in Russia
in one place. And that did not happen
until 2009. First, some amazing technical people,
photographers with big computers and cool computer gadgets and stuff
got their cameras together and they took pictures
of every single page, in the different places.
They took pictures of the pages that were--
there were a few little bits-- in Russia, still, 'cause most of them
went to England, they went to the British Library
because-- well, that's another story.
I'll get to that in the next book. But there's parts that are in Britain,
there's parts that are in Germany, and other parts that were found
in 1975, back in that monastery, at St. Catherine's monastery.
They took all these pictures from the four different places,
and for the first time you could see them:
www.codexsinaiticus.org, you can see it for yourself,
and put them side by side.
In 2014, Steven Avery asked me if I wanted to join up with a group
that he was doing. And I was like, "Okay.
What's it about?" "Ancient Greek manuscripts."
I went, "Kaay... I'm not some big Greek expert,
but I'll be glad to do it. I mean, sure, whatever."
And Steve says, "Take a look at these."
And he showed me these pages. He showed me --
I went online and I looked at the first two pages, over here.
There's a dark one and a light one. And he says,
"Do you think someone used Pepsodent on the white pages, there?
Do you think someone lightened the pages?
And so I spent like four hours paging through.
First I checked the Greek text. Does the end of the dark page
and the beginning of the light page, is that the same sentence?
And I checked all the places where the white ends
and the dark begins, and where the dark ends
and the white begins. And I went through all those places.
They all fit. Everything was cool. So then I looked at it and went,
"Does it look like it was whitened?" So I sat there for four hours,
just looking at the text. And I looked at [them] side by side.
Well, what's the color of the ink? The shape of the ink?
No, the shape is right. This is definitely the same handwriting.
There is no doubt about that.
So then I'm looking at it, zooming in, zooming out,
because you can do it online, and I'm looking at the color,
and I went, "Wait. If you've lightened this page, here,
then the ink would also be coming up,
and you'd be able to see that difference.
And a bunch of other things would happen on the page.
And--no. Instead, I looked at
this side of the page. And I said,
"Do you know what it looks like? It looks like when I was in seminary
and I was drinking my coffee, and SPLAT!
I spilled it in one of my books, and then I started
trying to clean it up. Only it looks almost like sombody
almost like brushed it on a page. So then I turned the page over.
I went, "It looks like someone kept on brushing,
and kept on going, and turning another page,
and another page, and another page. And then it looks like it evened out."
So then I went, "Let's look at the other side
from those white pages to the dark side.
And I looked there. It was more even,
and it stayed more even. And then there's actually
different phases, and I'll show them in different places,
here, here... I can tell you where
the New Testament starts. The phasing difference there,
between the colors on the shading of the pages overall.
If you couldn't tell, I made this giant poster.
You'll see it on my website, and you have a copy.
Man: Yeah.
David: I have a giant poster in the other room.
And you can see these color shifts. And I realized,
"I think somebody darkened the pages."
So I said, "Steven, is it possible that somebody like,
I don't know, was counterfeiting by darkening pages?
And he started looking it up and went, "Oh my goodness,
there's a whole group of people, a move of people,
to counterfeit things in the 1800s."
So now we were starting to think, "There's a problem here.
Somebody is counterfeiting this Bible." Instead of lightening these pages,
for fun and display, they darkened all the rest.
That was the beginning of saying, "Is the 'world's oldest Bible' a fake?"
You go on Wikipedia, you type "world's oldest Bible,"
you go on Google, you'll find Codex Sinaiticus.
Because what it does is, this manuscript is missing
words, phrases and verses, and it changes some others,
so that scriptures now contradict each other.
They don't say the same thing. And they lower the deity of Jesus,
they lower words about the Godhead, they take away words about angels,
about devils, about heaven, about hell.
They literally modify and take away parts of history,
things that Jesus said, which we'll get into later on.
And in the midst of all that, it causes such a confusion that
you need a priest to sort it out for you.
Doesn't that sound like a plan?
Man; Let's recap things here a little bit, David.
David: Sure.
Man: So from what you saw and what you read,
first of all you looked at the pictures, and you saw that they didn't match,
there was this section that didn't match,
and that was what Tischendorf took out, basically stole,
and he took to Russia. Is that correct?
David: Germany. The first ones in 1844
were to Germany. Those white pages
were the ones he took out, I think before he figured out
that it was a fake himself, in real life.
Man: And that was the CFA.
David: He would have to darken those pages.
I'm jumping ahead. You'll have to read it for yourself.
You can make your own conclusions, but yeah, that's what I have
in the book.
Man: But so anyway, you looked at it online
and you saw that the colors didn't match.
But there's actually, you said it in your book
there's more than just you looking at it online
and the colors didn't match. Because somebody could say,
"Well, maybe people didn't scan these in right,
or there's some kind of imperfection." But there was a contemporary
of Tischendorf--
David: Yes!
Man: Upersky, Upensky, what was it? He said it was all white.
David: Porfiry Uspensky.
Man: It was all white. But Simonides said...
Was it Simonides that said Tischendorf darkened it, or did...
There was a contemporary that did
David: Actually a monk that was there. Man: A monk, okay.
David: Kallinikos Monachos. Kallinikos was a monk
who was a friend of Simonides, but wrote differently from Simonides.
Some people said, "Oh, Simonides is just writing
and pretending to be a monk." No, actually.
The locations things were sent from, where Simonides was at the time,
all that kind of stuff shows there's no way he could have been
in two places at once. Plus, they don't say
the exact same thing. They actually have
different testimonies, slightly. But Kallinikos,
everything I found when I researched that guy,
Kallinikos Monachos, every point I found so far
has matched history to a "T." Ironically,
almost everything I found so far, of Simonides
has matched history to a "T," too. But I go into that in here,
little by little. You can see it, and look at the evidence for yourself.
But what Kallinikos said is he saw Tischendorf
saying he was "cleaning the pages," but he was actually aging them.
Man: So obviously, our audience will read the book.
So it's not necessarily the oldest, because why would you need then
to make it look old,
David: You have the oldest Bible - you've said it.
You've really said that! It's a great point.
If you have the discovery of the world,
of the century, of all of Christendom,
of finally having the oldest copy of God's words,
why would you change it?
Man: Right. Auntie:Yeah.
David: Why would you darken its pages?!
Because it's not just Uspensky who saw it, and it was white,
other people who went to Saxony talked about the stuff as white.
And the other people who saw the rest of it,
said it was dark.
So you have contemporaries claiming, who've seen the different parts,
what color it really was. In fact, Tischendorf himself,
when he took out the rest of Sinaiticus, suddenly said it was "sufflava,"
which means this kind of yellowed, aged-looking.
Auntie: Hmm.
Man: And then there's some that claim,
that thought this was, I'm jumping around here a little bit.
But... Emperor Constantine
had commissioned 50 Bibles he wanted made that were
portable, I think easy to read, and so people were saying that
this could be one of those 50 Bibles.
But you kind of prove in the book, too, if you want to explain it, great,
if not, people will go there, but you brought up in the book
why it would not be one of these 50 Bibles.
You don't believe that was from the 300s.
David: Yeah, well one reason is [Constantine] wanted the best scholars
and good calligraphers, it says, to put these things together.
And if you look in here, as I have one chapter called,
"Uniquely Bad," and another one called,
"Is That Your Best Job?" Because when I was a teacher,
and a kid turned in something that looked like what you find--
and you'll see it, if you watch the video series,
but you can also see it right here in the book--
and you see the kind of mess-ups and rewrites and erasures,
and scratch-outs, and all that stuff, you'd hand it [back] and say,
"Is that your best job?" That's one of the things a teacher says,
you know? And they'd say,
"No, Mr. Daniels." And I'd say,
"Here's a fresh paper. Start over." But they [in the Sinaiticus] didn't.
So the fact that there's not only that,
there's duplication. 1 Chronicles, there's parts of 1 Chronicles that are
in there twice! There's all sorts of things that indicate
this is more like a draft paper, rather than a term paper.
This is more like a draft Bible, not a final Bible.
And I don't want to give too much away.
There's a lot of story in the book.
Auntie: Yeah, and it also appears to be
extremely rushed.
David: You do agree, then? Auntie: Yeah.
David: You do agree that it looks like a rush job.
Auntie: Oh, totally. As a teacher myself, I can understand.
Well, I'm gonna shift gears a little bit,
with a different kind of question. We both found it kind of interesting
that the occultist, Manly P. Hall, who is a 33rd degree Mason
endorsed the Codex Sinaiticus, when he said in 1944,
and I quote from you, "For the last 100 years
we have been trying to get out an edition of the bible
that is reasonably correct but nobody wants it.
What is wanted is the good old King James Version,
every jot and tittle of it." Obviously, 100 years earlier
the Sinaiticus was discovered. Why would an occultist care
if the Bible translation is correct or not?
David: First, let me show you Debbie's picture of Manly P Hall.
Doesn't he look like a sweetie?
Man: Can you raise it up a little bit? David: Sure.
Auntie: Oh, I love that one. Yes, that was a scary looking guy.
David: That is what he looked like, too. He had these great googoo eyes.
Anyway, Manly Hall was so knowledgeable
about the occult. He basically befriended a rich lady,
and he was already a spiritist at the time,
and she just said, "Oh, here.
Here is every bit of money you ever wanted.
Go find stuff."
And so he did. And in his teens and early 20s
he was able to figure out the secrets of Freemasonry,
while not yet being a Mason. He figured that stuff out so much so
that a number of years later they made him
an honorary 33rd degree Mason. He was a friend
of 33rd degree Mason Franklin Delano Roosevelt,
President of the United States. They became fast friends.
In fact, he sent his government officials to do microfilm of all of his books,
so that they'd keep all these spiritist books.
I want to know: a guy with connections,
and with that kind of occultic influence as he,
and who talks about Lucifer and all that stuff that he says,
"Who's 'we'?" Who's the "we"
that put together a Bible. "We" have been assembling this Bible.
"We"? Well, it turns out that comes from
something I had to assemble in little pieces,
because you couldn't find it online. Actually, it just came online.
Somebody just put it up. So you can find it now.
But I had to assemble this. It wasn't even there,
and figure what Manly P. Hall had actually said.
I found this article from 1944. And he was talking about
the establishment of a new world order.
And in order to establish this new world order,
they needed to have everybody on board,
and use something called "psychology," and "tolerance,"
and bring it from kindergarten on up and start teaching people
how to do this, taking 4 or 5 generations to do it,
it said. But the problem was these people
who cling to the "jot and tittle" of the King James Bible.
Now this is the same guy who lifted up the Latin Vulgate,
lifted up Westcott and Hort, even lifted up the Sinaiticus,
and other writings. Why would he be afraid,
an occultist, of the King James Bible,
saying that the people who believe this jot and tittle
will not join this new world order?
And that's part of the mystery we want to solve.
I'm going into some of that in the second book.
Man: And so we are in, he said "Five generations."
Are we just starting the 5th generation now?
David: We are going into the 5th generation now.
Yeah, and think about it: psychology and tolerance.
You don't ever hear that in the news, do you?
Man: We never hear about "being tolerant."
David: No! No! You hear about IN-tolerance, but...
I learned about that from a meme. Somebody put a meme online,
and that's what started me going on this.
Auntie: Oh yeah. Man: Wow.
David: I'm telling you, God can use some great things,
some brothers in Christ, they find some quotes,
and I'm going, "Is that for real?
I've got to find out!" And -- got a book for it now.
So there we go.
Man: Well, you know, since 1944,
and we're talking about kind of where we're at
in the generations and things, there's been a lot of
translations and updates to the Bible versions.
So it looks like they've made some progress.
They're on their way to do that.
We've had several guests on the show. And so I thought what I'd do
is just take a survey of a few of them and see whoever answered back
and say: What Bible version do you like?
What's your favorite Bible version? So maybe you can talk about
how these relate to Codex Sinaiticus..
Auntie: You did it! Yay! Man: Alright!
I butcher all languages, even English. Okay.
Here are some of the guest replies. One of them,
his favorite is the NASB 1977 version. A couple guests said ESV,
he said because it was from the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The New King James Version. And then another one said
the NASB, which I guess there's an updated version
from the 1990s?
David: Yes, 1995.
Man: So how are all these related to what we're talking about?
David: To the Sinaiticus. Let's have some fun with Sinaiticus.
Okay, well, The New American Standard.
I'm so glad you said the 1977, 'cause it's great. It's just great.
When we come to Luke 24, Luke 24, New American Standard Bible,
and you go to verse 51. It says,
"And it came about that while He was blessing them, He parted from them."
That's fine. That's great. And then it says
52 "And they returned to Jerusalem with great joy,"
53 "and were continually in the temple, praising God."
That's wonderful. Here's a problem, though.
See it was Gail Riplinger who actually found it,
so I cannot claim this one. This was in 1993,
Gail Riplinger came up with a book called, "New Age Bible Versions."
And she pointed out, there's a problem
with that being removed. And by the way,
the only reason it's removed, is because it's removed from here!
In fact, in the book, I even show you the place where it is, and the arrow,
and where somebody scribbled it at the top of the page,
but it's not a part of original Sinaiticus. Because of that,
the New American Standard removed some words.
So let me first show you what Acts says.
It says, and this is reading from the same
New American Standard,
1 "The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus
began to do and teach,"
The first account, of course, is of course, the Gospel of Luke.
2 until the day when He was taken up..."
Wait! There's nothing about being "taken up."
Let's go back to that.
Luke 24. Oh! There's a footnote. "Some mss. add
and was carried up into heaven." "Some manuscripts."
So because Sinaiticus doesn't have it, it says "some manuscripts HAVE it."
MOST manuscripts HAVE it.
Auntie: Yeah.
David: It's Sinaiticus that does NOT have it.
That's the truth. That was kind of a lying note.
But it says here [in Acts], 1 "The first account...
all that Jesus began to do and teach,
2 until the day when He was taken up..."
Which means, it had to have been in that text.
So Sinaiticus can't possibly be right, because Luke himself tells you
My first book, Luke, actually has
Him being taken up into heaven.
So, after Gail pointed out that their pants were down like that,
the 1995 put it back in. So now it says,
51 "While He was blessing them, He parted from them
and was carried up into heaven."
Now the 1995 also removes all sorts of other stuff.
But if you really want to know what's in or out of
the New American Standard, you can get this book,
which you didn't show, "Look What's Missing."
I compare the King James Bible to 41 different translations,
even including the new-new-new-new-new NIV,
the 2011. So you can look it up
and see for yourself all the verses that are missing,
the words that are missing, out of 257 selected verses.
And then I even have charts in the back, and percentages,
and all of that fun stuff. You can see how the
New American Standard Update is still removing stuff.
But that's another story.
Now, English Standard.
Man: Yes.
David: English Standard, you said, "Dead Sea Scrolls."
That's fun. Let's see. Hold on just a second...
Here. I have all sorts of stuff in my office.
Dead Sea Scrolls. Now you've got to
ask yourself a question. Why would it make a difference
to have the Dead Sea Scrolls? We already know
that the Hebrew manuscripts were passed down
through the tribe of Levi. The scriptures tell you.
Auntie: Yeah.
David: They were entrusted with the scriptures,
they passed it down. And as they continued
to pass it down, family to family,
group to group, through the priestly line,
that eventually there became another group.
There's no temple anymore. But they continued to pass
[the scriptures] down, and a group got together
which we call the Masoretes. Okay? The Masoretic scribes.
They were just decended on the same line,
but they're now given a different name, because they're no longer connected
to the temple issues and stuff. And so for 5, 6, 700 years,
they continued to copy the Hebrew scriptures.
And so we have this unbroken line. Very important.
We know "provenance"-- we have proof of
where something came from. We have "chain of custody"--
we know, just like in a courtroom. You have evidence, and you say,
"Oh, we have evidence tampering."
No, we don't. We have a chain of custody.
And we can show that we have the same evidence
and it is passed through these tests and now we have the same thing here,
as was back here. And we have the provenance
to show it was by these people. That's what we have
with the Hebrew scriptures. That's amazing.
Now the Dead Sea Scrolls.... Let me first show you:
why would they want the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Because the only reason they'd emphasize it,
for, say, the English Standard Version, is if it had
something that was different, right?
Auntie: Yeah.
David: If it was the same, you'd go, "Oh, it just backs it up."
And actually over 90% of it does back it up.
It's the same stuff, which is amazing. Because the Dead Sea Scrolls
have ZERO provenance. We have NO IDEA
where they came from. There is no history of
where they came from. There's no history
of who did it. We don't know
who passed it down. We don't know
how long it's been there. And they're assembled
from 17,000 little scraps of paper that have been
computer reassembled over time. Since 1949, starting with microscopes,
and then working up to computers, to assemble them together.
Although there are a few scrolls, like Isaiah, there are two Isaiahs,
and there's Exodus and Psalms, those are the best ones.
And those, actually, so largely match our preserved text
of Hebrew, the Masoretic Text, that there's no reason
even to think about it. But if they go,
"Yes, but it changed over here, therefore we are gonna trust this..."
Trust who?
Auntie and Man: Right.
David: I mean, Joe Schmo down the street
could have made his own copy, and then stuck it in a cave.
There is no proof of anything. No provenance.
No chain of custody. So there you go.
We need to have those to prove it.
Now what you would use it for, in the English Standard,
specifically, maybe, would be this: the Apocrypha.
Auntie: Yeah.
David: See, what people won't tell you, and my own seminary professors
did not tell me, was that the Codex Vaticanus,
the Codex Sinaiticus, the Codex Alexandrinus,
that they were using to change the New Testament,
weren't just New Testaments. They were also Old Testaments.
And the thing they called "The Septuagint,"
which means translated by seventy, allegedly,
you have a book there Did Jesus Use the Septuagint?
The Septuagint is not just an Old Testament.
It turns out that what they call a Septuagint,
that we've seen any one that you can hold in your hand,
is actually looking just like a Catholic Bible.
It has an Old Testament. It has Apocrypha mixed in,
as if it were scripture. And it has New Testament, too.
So obviously, no copy of the so-called Septuagint
could be that old, because it has a New Testament attached to it.
Right? Auntie and Man: Right.
David: There's a whole story more in "Did Jesus Use the Septuagint?"
that goes into all the history of that. But then the other thing
that you do with the Septuagint, though,
is change Old Testament things. But do you want to know
how many Old Testament things there are in the Dead Sea Scrolls,
that apply to the Old Testament, that have been said
to have been a part of the Septugint? Get ready, 'cause here they are.
Ready? Can you see it?
Auntie: Little bits. Man: Yeah.
David: That's it. I'm done. That's it.
All that talk is about those pieces of paper.
I got those from the University of Pennsylvania.
I found them years ago, and I've checked ever since.
I've got books on the subject, and everything.
That's it! And most of those
are dated close to the 1st century.
So there's nothing that affects the Bible as a historical, transmitted document.
And if there's any changes, it has no provenance,
and no chain of custody, and definitely
no connection to the Levite priests, no way the apostles would have used it,
no way Hebrew speakers in Palestine would have used it.
And the only time you actually hear of it being used
is in Alexandria, Egypt, from the 100s AD onward.
Man: Okay.
Auntie: Well, you touched on Alexandria.
One of my favorite bits in your book is the word, "apt."
Could you kind of touch on that for our audience?
That might help. It helped me
to keep it straight.
David: Yeah! It was really fun. I really want to be an "apt" learner.
The Bible talks about being "apt," an apt learner.
I want to be an apt student of the word. And so "A-P-T" helps me.
A stands for two things. They are two cities.
There's Alexandria, Egypt. And that's where we hear about these
supposedly "older and better" texts.
And then there's Antioch of Syria, where "the disciples
were called Christians first."
If you scratch any big scholar deep enough,
you will find out that there are only two cities
that everything goes back to: either Antioch
or Alexandria.
From Antioch come the people that they called,
the Alexandrians even called, "hyper literalist."
Now, if you're a hyper literalist, that means you're going to
pay attention to every letter of every word, right?
Auntie: Yep.
David: That means you're pretty likely to want to have the same text,
and not change it.
But over here, at Alexandria, were people who were
spiritualizers, or allegorizers. They did not believe
that the literal scriptures were true. And they allegorized them.
And they thought they were smarter than the literal text.
Who's more likely to change the scripture?
People who believe in every jot and tittle of it?
Or people who believe that they have the right
to manipulate the story for their own ends?
So that's the two cities. I say that Antioch is Apostolic.
Because the Apostles are connected with Antioch.
The other is Alexandria, which I call Apostate.
Because the people here were apostate Jews,
they left Judaism, well, Hebrew religion,
before Judaism, and they were apostate
Christians as well, because they literally
blended Christianity with Gnosticism, paganism,
Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, and things like that.
So that's A.
P. The Apostles Preserved God's word. Very simple.
If it's the words of God, the people in the Apostolic group
want to Preserve it. So that's the P here.
The P here is Polluted. Because they modified it,
by adding things taking things away
to accord with their modified beliefs about Jesus,
about the Godhead, about heaven and hell and devils,
about history and events and all sorts of stuff.
So that, the P here, is Polluted.
Then we have T. There are two things, not one.
Like when we get to the New King James,
it's largely the same Greek and Hebrew text --
not all-- but largely the same as the King James Bible.
Very, very close, except for a couple of things.
There are two things we talk about. Usually we talk about the Text.
That's the first T. The Text, of course,
is definitely different, when you have words
added in or taken away.
But the other is Translation. And an amazing thing happened.
Instead of the historical understanding of Greek and Hebrew words,
there became a change in the 1600s starting in the Catholic
universities in France, and then going into Germany,
and then into England and America, where they
changed the meanings of those Greek and Hebrew words,
even how to teach Greek and Hebrew, so that you would come up with
different meanings of the text.
Since I mentioned New King James,
let me give you one more thing. Because you mentioned
New King James, I want to show this to you.
What is one of the most famous statements of Jesus
around the world? When He was on the cross,
and His enemies were around Him like Psalm 22,
they're calling on him, calling against Him,
and they're reviling Him. Jesus looked down on them and said,
David, Auntie and Man: "Father, Forgive them; for they know not
what they do." (Luke 23:34).
That is known all over the world.
Here's the New King James. They intentionally, from 1982 onward,
wrote all the textual notes of the disagreeing verses
from Bibles, and put them in the footnotes.
And they said in the directions, You get to make your own decisions
about whether you think it belongs or not.
And so, on this verse, it says,
"NU" -- the Nestles-UBS Text -- brackets the first sentence
as a later addition." Why would they
take out the words, "Father, forgive them;
for they know not what they do"? Because they're missing from:
Codex Sinaiticus!
Now let me ask you a question. If the most famous verse,
one of the most famous verses of statements in the Bible
you cannot trust, and you cannot trust
that God preserved only what He wanted,
how do you know that He is gonna preserve your soul?
If the God who promised to preserve His words
cannot preserve a Book, how is He gonna preserve your soul?
How can you know? And if that doesn't belong,
how do you know that John 3:16 really belongs?
How do you know you're not gonna dig in the dirt
in a new cave somewhere, and find and "olderer and besterer"?
And then that one will say, there is no John 3:16.
Or maybe it will change the words.
Are you gonna put your faith in that? Or in the historically passed-down,
by persecuted believers, Bible?
And that's where I go. You have a choice to make.
Do you believe what God preserved? Or you believe what God ... hid?
The modern scholars say: "You crazy people
are saying that THIS BEAUTIFUL MANUSCRIPT
(sniff)" --By the way,
none of my professors ever brought this
into their classroom-- [You have to thank Jack McElroy.
I have learned more things from this because he sent this
from Massachusetts to here, so that I could study it.
So props, props for him.]
"THIS BEAUTIFUL BOOK, you're saying that
somebody counterfeited this book in the 1800s?"
Yes!
What are YOU saying? That God HID His real words,
missing words, phrases and verses, that you suddenly have to take out
of your Bible, AFTER 1800 years?
Because the 1800 years goes both ways.
1) You can say this was a faked Bible,
and I have all sorts of evidence that you can evaluate for yourselves.
or 2) that God allowed a fake Bible to be around
for 1800 years, and then suddenly,
in the 1800s, turned everybody to
Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, which the Vatican was so happy about,
they gave special accolades and awards to Tischendorf,
and all the textual scholars who would work with it.
Because when they worked with it, they had a lifetime of work,
because everything is so disagreeable in it.
There's so many erasures, so many changes.
In fact, in my next book-- and I haven't even put out
these videos yet-- but in my next book
I'm actually gonna show you guys that there were two groups of monks
that were fighting against each other over what readings to write
in the margins, while correcting
this draft copy of a Bible.
That's another story that I will get to in a few weeks.
Man: Well, can you touch on the Gospel of Mark,
in relation to all of this causing some doubt,
and what was left out.
David: I would love to. In fact, it was at my old Bible college.
In fact, if you look at some of my videos,
you might actually find my Bible college's video.
I just lost your sound, just in case you're wondering.
Man: Okay, can you hear us now? David: Oh, I hear you now.
Okay. You can cut that.
In my old Bible college, my own professor,
I was his top student, and he had a former top student
which I mentioned. You can see his name in the book.
And on YouTube-- they actually filmed
when they talked about the Codex Sinaiticus.
And they spent a lot of time doing this for me.
They did all the work. And what they said in that session
was the same thing as 30 years ago (30+ years ago now)
for a Resurrection Sunday service. My professor came [and preached]
to a local church. My wife and I came
and listened to him.
He said the same basic words. And so literally he put on film
what he said in the church. And he basically said that
there are certain things that don't belong
in the Gospel of Mark. And it's because
they are missing from... Sinaiticus.
Now this is interesting, because there's just two words missing up here.
This is the Greek. It says, "Kata Markon"
"According to Mark." And here it says
"The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus" (Iesou Christou)
"Jesus Christ." And then it goes on to verse 2.
Well, your Bible, if you look at it typically,
most Bibles say, "The beginning of the Gospel
of Jesus Christ, the Son of God."
This [Sinaiticus] does not originally have "the Son of God."
A corrector wrote it, really tiny, in the margin right here.
Do you see it? Auntie and Man: Oh, yeah.
David: That little thing! Now that tiny little mark in there
(ha ha, mark in Mark) changes the meaning
of the entire chapter of Mark 1.
Here's how it works.
If you don't have the words, "Son of God,"
then you don't have the pre-idea that Jesus Christ IS God's Son.
Okay? So then it starts out and says,
Okay, John the Baptist is here, and he's baptizing people
to forgive their sins. So they're coming
to get their sins forgiven. They're getting baptized
to get their sins forgiven. It says so.
Then you move a few verses down. It says Jesus also came.
And Jesus also got baptized. What do you imply from that?
People were going to be baptized
to get their sins forgiven. Jesus also came.
Jesus also was baptized. Implication:
Auntie and Man: He's getting His
David: He's getting His sins forgiven. Exactly..
Then it says that God spoke from heaven
"Thou art my beloved Son..."
That's called "adoptionism." An early cultic belief,
a Gnostic belief, was that Jesus was a man,
who had to "become" the Son of God.
Now it may not seem [like this] to the people listening right now.
"It doesn't say that to me. I know who He is.
I have the other Gospels." No, but you're reading
the Gospel of Mark. And you're reading
what it says. Could it actually make a scholar
believe something like that?
As a matter of fact, yes.
Where is my book?
Here it is. The guy who photographed Sinaiticus
first, the New Testament, in 1910, he's a guy named Kirsopp Lake.
He wrote this book, 15 years after
he photographed Sinaiticus. It's called "The Religion of Yesterday
and Tomorrow."
It's a very interesting book, hard to find.
I'm so happy to have it. Listen to this about
just chapter 1 of Mark.
He said, "For it may be argued..." Oh, I have to tell you a word.
"Apotheosis." "Apo" is "from,"
"Theos" is "God." Apotheosis means
God coming from heaven and becoming a man.
Okay, so Apotheosis, God becoming a man.
We call it "the incarnation," to use the Latin term.
"For it may be argued that Mark knows nothing,
even of an apotheosis," (Of God becoming man)
"and only shows that Jesus was
believed to have become A son of God,
possibly at his baptism, and that the disciples,
and perhaps Jesus himself, BELIEVED he was the son of man,
which only means "man," who had come from heaven
in the last day to judge the living and the dead.
this is 'Adoptionism,' but it's not necessarily apotheosis."
And then it goes on.
So this guy himself says, who photographed this manuscript,
and knows that it doesn't have "the Son of God"
and it's about the only thing that doesn't have it,
says that Jesus was "adopted" at best, as "a" son of God.
And that's as close as it gets.
Later on, a few years after that, in 1941,
Kirsopp Lake wrote these words.
To see how it's affected his faith, it's here in "Look What's Missing."
"In spite of the claims of Westcott and Hort
and of Von Soden, we do not know
the original form of the Gospels, and it is quite likely
that we never shall."
That's the opposite of what Tischendorf said
in 1844 and 1853 and 1859 and 1862, all through 1867.
That's the opposite. He said, Now we shall know
exactly what God did. And we shall show
this wonderful thing about what God's words were.
But that's not what they did. They did the exact opposite.
You see, we already knew what God's words were.
They were passed down by the persecuted believers.
And in English we have them in the King James Bible.
Man: So it really comes down to 2 things,
doesn't it? It comes down,
like you said in your book, faith versus doubt,
or doubt versus faith. And it's to create doubt.
David: Absolutely. The Devil had a "Plan B"
that he did during early Christendom.
And that was to kill people and try to destroy their Bibles.
Well, it didn't work. 'Cause there's always more Christians.
And there's always preservation of Bibles, because
God kept the promise.
God didn't say, Man shall have to keep the Bible
for everything to be good. He said [in Psalm 12:6-7],
"Thou shalt keep them, O Lord: thou shalt preserve them,
from this generation for ever."
It was God's responsibility. Jesus Himself said,
mentioned 3 times, Matthew, Mark and Luke:
"Heaven and earth shall pass away,
but my words [words - 's'] shall not pass away."
It was God's responsibility to put all this together.
And... I forgot your question.
Man: Oh, faith versus doubt.
David: Okay, "Plan B" was to kill the people
and destroy their Bibles. "Plan A" is the Garden of Eden.
"Yea, hath God said ...?" It causes four steps.
And this is exactly what happened in Genesis chapter 3,
and exactly what happened with the modern Bible movement.
The first one is Confusion. "Yea, hath God said?"
"Yeah, has He said it? Did God tell us
what we're supposed to do? Is this God's word?
Is this not God's word?"
Confusion.
The 2nd one, Doubt. "I'm no longer sure.
I - I doubt He did. I'm - I'm just not really clear.
I don't know. I'm just gonna hold back
on that one for now."
Welcome to Bible college. That's Doubt.
The 3rd step: Disbelief. "I don't believe
that God said this, or that God really meant
to preserve it"
And the 4th is Rebellion. "I'm gonna go my own way
and do my own thing."
And the Devil doesn't care where on that stairway that you go,
as long as you're on it. And what it is, is
the Devil doesn't care what Bible he gets you TO.
All he cares about is which Bible
he gets you FROM.
If you can hold one Bible, as I can, right now--
and I was trained in all this, I was taught in my Greek class,
I went into Advanced Greek at Fuller Seminary,
took my Hebrew, went and did Wycliffe Bible Translators
stuff, Summer Institute of Linguistics,
continued reading papyri, I have all sorts of
books on the stuff, I've been reading it for decades,
and I found out I was wrong.. My professors were wrong.
I was wrong. God really did preserve His words.
I can hold this Book, and I do, regularly,
and say, "I believe every word of this Book."
It really is God's book in my language.
Nobody can do that with these. Auntie: Yeah.
David: It's faith vs. doubt. And it really is the Christian's choice.
Man: The reason I felt compelled to contact you about the show is,
we get mail here at the house occasionally,
for Wycliffe Bible Translators, because the person
we bought the house from was associated with them.
And so I was like, "Is this a sign to contact David
about the Bible translations?"
David: Yeah, well, Wycliffe Bible Translators,
in that book that you have over there, "Why They Changed the Bible:
One World Bible for One World Religion,"
it's almost like the answer to this book.
It tells you the End Game. And so I'm doing all the other books
to tell how we got to the End Game.
So we're at the End Game with "Why They Changed the Bible,"
and we're at the beginning game with how it started in the 1800s
with faking the Sinaiticus --and maybe Vaticanus,
but that's another book. We have this possibility
of how they moved toward One World Bible.
And they needed a guy who is a "man at the crossroads,"
to create a Bible movement that would lead you
toward the fake Bible, away from the real Bible,
and into enough confusion that you would need a priest,
or enough agreements with Rome, Auntie and Man: Yeah
David: that Rome would say, "We have to approve of this Bible
before you can distribute this Bible."
So they had agreements. 1966 they had these agreements.
But that's all in that book.
Man: Now, in your opinion, okay, they're switching
to a one world Bible, and I'm thinking in order to do that,
eventually they are going to have to make a leap.
They're creating the doubt. Now they're gonna have to
make the leap that Jesus was just a prophet,
as maybe the Muslims say.
Do you see the Catholic Church getting behind that?
Is there gonna be a point where maybe they'll say,
"Hey, we were wrong all along. Jesus wasn't the Son of God.
He was just this Prophet, and we need to merge
with all these other religions is that...?
Do you think that's what they're gonna do?
David: Very interesting question. I've not ever been asked that one
in public before.
There is a possibility, I mean, if you use your imagination.
One thing you have to say is ... I already believe,
and you can see it on our website, on youtube.com/c/chicktracts ,
on our YouTube site, I do believe that
the Whore of Babylon, from Revelation 17 and 18,
really is the Roman Catholic Church. I go through 9 points
to show why it is, and I give you pictures and everything
to take you through it, one step at a time.
But I believe that the Antichrist is gonna be
either the white pope or more likely the black pope,
the Jesuit General. Of course now we have
a Jesuit pope. You kind of have both
at the same time. But what they declare
is that the pope is "christ on earth."
Now, is it necessary to have Christ in heaven,
if you have "Christ on earth"? Can they lower that Christ
to raise up the man? Because guess what?
When your professors lower the scriptures,
they raise themselves. Auntie: Yeah.
David: When my professors lowered my belief in this Bible,
they raised up my belief in this one. But wait!
What if my professor now came out with THIS one?
The same professor comes out with another Bible!
Am I gonna believe him here? You see what I've done?
I've shifted from trusting God to trusting man.
Now yes, men got together on this [the King James Bible].
But unlike other Bibles, when the King James
was put together, 1604-1610,
then published in 1611, it was done in such a way
that 54-plus people total were going over the text
no less than 14 times.
And they weren't allowed to go off by themselves
and have "their" individual thoughts. They had to literally
convince everybody else of their beliefs.
And only, according to the rules of the game,
if they disagreed after all that work,
and everybody else agreed, but one guy was still like,
"No, but I like my view," then he got an "or" in the margin.
So I always tell people, "If you see the word 'or,' (in the margin)
you can ignore." Auntie and Man: Oh!, Good.
David: But this is a Bible based on agreements,
such agreement, of people with two different
points of view: the Puritans,
who were really narrow in their way, of seeing scripture, and
they stripped their churches bare, and stuff like that;
and then the ornate Church of England.
They had all these people getting together and agreeing
on the words.
And they prayed, and they trusted God.
And you know how you know a tree?
Man: By its fruit. Auntie: Fruit.
David: The fruit of people who believe this book
is a book in itself. It's actually multiple books.
I have a lot of the books of the people who believe this Book.
The largest, world-wide missions movements
were started by people believing This Book.
The largest denominations, where people would split away
from something that had pulled away from God,
and come back to Him, This Book.
This book has brought together...
Well, people say, "The Pilgrims came over,
and they had the Geneva Bible." Well, isn't it funny?
We don't have a single Geneva Bible that went over the Mayflower.
My ancestors, through the Hopkins line,
came over on the Mayflower. The only Bible that we know
came over on the Mayflower was a King James Bible,
believe it or not. That's the one we know.
We actually have a copy of it in Massachusetts.
The original, it IS in Massachusetts.
But my point is, the next generation of
all the Pilgrims, despite the fact that
they started with the Geneva Bible, and their political feelings,
ended up with the King James Bible.
Their children trusted this Bible.
And our country was founded even by people
who believed THIS Bible.
So I believe that THIS Bible has a FRUIT of faith.
I have never seen a revival of faith
with any-- not even the New King James--
Not the Reviled Slandered-- Revised Standard,
not the New English Bible, not the Revised English Bible,
not the "new and improved" Contemporary English Bible,
you just name it. The Message,
the Goodspeed, the Wuest, the Moffatt, you name it,
Living, Dead, whatever Bible you have,
not a single one of them has brought about faith like that.
So the FRUIT is in this Book.
If nothing else, be a fruit-chooser, you know?
Pick your fruit wisely. I want the fruit of faith.
Man: Yeah, there is always a, when people are using
the other translations, they'll read a translation
and they'll say, "Well, let's see what
the other one has to say." And it's that doubt.
And then it's picking, "Well, which one
do I like the best?"
David: And THEY become the "Bible scholar!"
Stage 4: Rebellion. "I'll do it my own way."
Auntie: Well, when you start picking verses or words,
to suit what you think is right, then you are,
whether you are aware of it or not, participating in becoming
god-like.
David: Yes! "I want the PAC Bible -
the Pick and Choose Version!" "I want the
Multiple Choice Version - the MCV!"
"Whatever I want to believe!"
"This time I want this to be about males.
This time I want it to be about males AND females.
This time I don't really care what it is!
Animals are fine!"
You can make your Bible the way you want to,
when YOU are the judge of it, instead of the history,
and transmission, of faithful, persecuted believers.
Man: Now let me ask you this. And this may not come out right.
But you were not always a King James only, right?
When you were in Bible college.
David: Not even close.
Man: So let's say a meteor hit California at that time,
when you were, or whatever, and you died.
Were you saved then, even though you weren't
King James?
David: We are not saved by books. We are saved by faith
in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins.
We are only saved by putting our faith
in the Son of God and not in ourselves.
First, we turn to Him, which is all we do, we "repent,"
which means we turn to Him, from our sin.
We're not stopping, we're in the midst of our sin,
we're filled with yuckiness. But we turn,
just like the people who had been bitten by serpents.
Jesus said, talking about looking upon Him,
right? If I be lifted up,
I will draw all men to Myself. And then also,
As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up.
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,
but have eternal life.
So that's what God provided, that you turn and look upon Him.
Behold! When they beheld
the serpent up on the pole, which was representative,
although it was a serpent, because they were bitten by serpents,
but the Person who became a curse for us,
like a serpent on a pole, they beheld Him,
and they were instantly healed. So they were still yucky,
while they were turning, they were still dying,
they were still writhing in pain, but when they turned
and looked upon Him... They looked upon the serpent.
They placed their faith that something was gonna happen,
right? Auntie: Yeah.
David: Well, when you turn (repent) and look upon Christ,
and place FAITH in Him-- it always says "repent and believe,"
"repentance and faith." It never says "faith and repentance."
Because you have to turn first, to know who you're looking at.
Auntie: Yeah, right.
David: And then you place your faith in the Son of Man,
God's Son, the Son of God,
God, who died for your sin,
and trust that His shed blood paid for your sin,
paid the penalty, then you're saved.
It is not a matter of what book you read.
However, if you want to grow, in faith,
you need the words of faith.
See, Romans 10:17 says
"Faith cometh by..."
Man: Hearing David: Hearing,
"and hearing by the word of..." man?
Auntie and Man: No, God.
David: Oh! "So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God."
So if I have the word of man, then faith is not gonna be the product.
I need to have the word of God. So if I want to grow in faith...
Romans 1:17 says we go "from faith to faith"
even as it is written, the just shall live by faith."
The way to do that, is to have the words of faith,
without the mixture of man's opinions.
Auntie: Amen. Man: Okay.
So, any other questions, Auntie?
Auntie: I do not. No. I think that pretty much sums it up
for now, or we could keep talking
for another hour.
Man: Yeah. Well, definitely everybody's got to,
you've got to get the book, because we've only
scratched the surface of the research David has done.
And you probably need to read it. I actually started going throught it
a second time, just because there's a lot in there.
But I think you really do, you do make the case, because
these new versions are based on a fake.
And so I think that everybody needs to realize that.
And whether they still want to trust the version that they have, so.
David, your books can be ordered at chick.com, correct?
All of them there?
David: That's right. You don't even have to put the www.
Just go chick.com [Enter]
and it'll take you right there.
Man: I haven't read this one yet. But I understand
that this one is not printed out anymore?
David: You have a very rare copy. They're only in ebook now.
That's when I interviewed Jack about why he wrote different tracts.
And I got the interview in there. And since Jack's in heaven,
that's the only place where you're gonna find out what he said
about those tracts. And I.. basically wrote "Home Alone,"
I'll take the cred-- the blame.
But the "Home Alone" tract is also in there.
And we talked about WHY we wrote that tract.
Man: I got this from Goodwill, actually.
David: Wow. Man: I found that there.
Out of Texas, I found it online, and they put it up -
it was on Amazon, I went through there.
But the rest I did get, I think I either got it from yours, Chick,
or some of your books are available on Amazon, too.
David: Yes. Well, this just became available
on Amazon, today. So not just the ebook,
but also the physical book you can get. They had a ... glitch.
But now it's available today. So, it's the perfect day!
Man: And the last time that we talked, we were testing out
your new computer and Skype, almost 2 months ago now,
and I asked David a question about this book [Babylon Religion],
and he goes, "Did you read the Appendix?"
And I'm like, "No," And guess what?
I still haven't gotten to it yet, because I got your other book.
So, I promise I'll get to that.
David: It's 10,000 words. I got a letter from another person
who said that, "The Appendix alone
was worth the price of the book." Because it has all this backup,
in context, where you can look at it for yourself.
And I have to tell you: I had no horse in this race,
when I started. I didn't care
where the Sinaiticus came from.
It didn't matter to me. My faith was
already here [in the King James], for other reasons.
Whether it was ancient or modern, I didn't really care.
But I found out that it was, that it was part of a larger... scheme.
And what started out to be maybe 2 videos
turned out to be that book. So it's literally
by a person who didn't care. And now I've found out,
and now it's exciting, 'cause I'm the guy who watched "Columbo"
three times in a row.
Auntie: Well, I'm very interested to see your next project,
if you're going to tackle Vaticanus,
in the same zest.
David: Well, actually, this is just Part One.
The first book is Part One. Part One is,
Is what Tischendorf said happened, real?
Did it really happen? Could it have happened?
Or is there an alternative explanation?
That's this book.
The second book that I'm already working on,
and it's in our video series on YouTube right now,
is, "What really happened during those days?"
And then after that, is what happened after that,
and after that, is What happened to the people
who were the clingers to the King James?
How were they trying to get those people --
and still are today, trying to get those remaining people
away from the jot-and-tittle of the King James.
And that will go on. But in the midst of that,
there's either two possibilities. One:
In this next book I am working on now,
that the Vaticanus, once I finish with Sinaiticus,
the Vaticanus will start popping up at me,
or Two: Once I finish with this,
I'll do a whole new series and start on Vaticanus
and see what we find out!
Man: So it's good that there's more to come.
Auntie: Yes. Man: So definitely.
Thanks for watching. And get David's book.
And check out his vlogs on the Chick YouTube channel.
And go to chick.com to order the book.
So thank you David, for joining us,
and piquing everybody's interest in what's real
and what's fake.
So next time we'll see you on the Prophecy Brothers.
Thanks for watching!
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