So we are here at FMBΒ
2017 we are in the second day of
Mondioring competitions today category 2 is playing and we are with Kees Verbunt, hello Kees -Hi
Kees is really famous in the Society of mondioring -famous, haha
He has been a
Good competitor. He has been a good decoy, judge not yet?!?. No no I was busy with it, but yeah then
Something's came on the road so or maybe when I get a little bit older. Okay first of all thank you for this interview
You're welcome. What do you think of the competition until now here in FMBB
from the dogs you have seen a
Little bit mixed feelings there are some
Very high-level dogs, and yeah like always a little bit lower level ones
So we'll analyze the whole thing about malinos in general
But of course what I see and that's usually the FMBB I see more
Less routine dogs. It's quite the beginning of the year the year starts usually February March, so
handlers nervous
Dogs yeah, you need a couple of competitions to finalize the last details, but now we will see
tomorrow which will be level 3
Yeah, i have high expectations to say it like that -nice
So so would you like to tell us some things about yourself like how old are you how you started and everything oh?
Yeah, I'm 35 years old
I'm actually a third generation of dogs sporter my grandfather did obedience my father did obedience
My aunt's mom brother sister. They all did obedience
In Belgium the Belgian obedience not the international, the belgian obedience
Where you were born -I'm born in Belgium in *somewhere*
It's a little bit direction the Dutch border the Holland's border so yeah
So actually it was a little bit normal
That I would start
Following this yeah
There was a little bit discussion because my mom's side was soccer player and so they said I he has to play soccer so I
Started with soccer, but than eleven years old my parents said okay
Now you have to choose
You cannot do two things at the same time so so I decided to go for dogs obedience and agility that moment so
Your parents was into professional dog training. -No no no amateur as a hobby
-But still -exactly they were actually more busy with the dogs sport actually than with their bussiness
No and also they competed
There was even a time that we were my mother father me and my sister in the same group in obedience
It's in the same, so yeah
I can say that come it was normal that I Hey so then when I became a little older
I saw ring sport and as a young boy. Bite sport is a little bit more
tempting yeah
So then I started in a club and a local club -which club was that?
it was a small local club. They had a very good history
But it went a little bit down so then I searched for I had a little bit higher goals
so then I came in contact with Jos Helsen also quite famous name in this sport and
He built me up to what I am
-In Westerlo club? -In westerlo yes
-where we met for the first time also -oh yeah the small field
It's also good with a lot of history
We have a lot of Belgium champions in Belgian ring. It's a club that's I believe now It's like
57 years old so that's
Yes
It's a club with a reputation
So and then I came there in the right -so in in which age you got into the Ring sports
That must be when I was
Really into it 15 years, yeah -really early - yeah and then actually that straight that same year, I started with
decoying and
At my club they said "ah why don't you do your decoy certification" and I had taken one dog in my whole life, so
But that was my luck I did it exactly
According the rules and the judges were happy so that's it I get a very good recommendation
-So your your decoy -that was in Belgium at that moment -was at 15 years old or later?
15 years I became 16 so and then a year later I became mondioring decoy so and from then its just
And your family what kind of dogs did they have? -my family
they were breeders of Bouvier's yeah
-a lot of hair uh :P
- A lot of hair yes, the good thing is that they don't lose it
The bad thing is a lot of grooming
So the Bouviers - so they were working with the Bouviers -yeah
in the obedience I also start with Bouviers in
also in ring sport
Yeah, I still have a small heart for those long bearded
Black guys the problem is they stopped with cutting the ears so then actually the the whole
-outfit -yeah, I understand why they did it but
-Still yeah, yeah, yeah, -so and then also where my dogs came from that was mainly from Holland there
you have the KNPV we're still test for police, they are still the rough neck hard
Bouviers, but that's not so there was no no yeah
Yes moving forward. Yeah, so then there was a guy in Westerlo with a malinois for sale
A bad ass a little bit. He had some complications in it, i bought it on then
Later yeah two years later
I became world champion with him in level one in the FMBB -was the name of the dog? -Zep
So actually so you didn't have Zep since he was a puppy? - No no I get it
I have to see, think it was one and a half year old
-How old were you?
You know I have to come back I
had my driver license so
He was born in
2000 I think
So I had him in
2001 - yeah and 2003 I
became Belgian champion in mondioring 1 and
world champion fmbb also in category 1
-2003?
2003 i don't remember exactly
so something like 14 years before -yeah something like that
Since then I still have that Bouvier feeling but it's it's easy with the malinois so
now my heart is with Malinois -and Zep was also a famous dog
-famous yes, he had his reputation both good and bad
-the grand father of my dog also
-yeah , yeah thats true, So
now the,
i'd say he was not the easiest dog of course my training was a little bit more redneck than it's now
But yeah, they always say you know the first dog
That's the one you never forget, and I'm often looking on that
picture standing on the with him in front of his
trophies yeah
-it is something uh?
-definitely -so after Zep
After Zep, now I have to think a little bit back um
Since then I actually had always offspring of him sons the first dog I had after Zep was
a
Half-brother of him Cola. I think you also know that dog very
very good grip and
Since then. I actually always was working with sons grandsons of him
Just to stay in the same line
Always -which lines was Zep? -Zep was... it's a sensitive matter
Officially he had Barlerlo bloodline and Balderlo is pure exposition
But when you go in the real pedigree he had Tom van't Muizenbos an incredible famous dog in Belgium. Yeah, so
Yeah
So nice so now your latest dog that you were competing was Nike de sol Casa - Yes a brother of yours, yeah
Actually a copy of yours just a male version. - yes, and you won the world championship?
No , the second place after Tom Andrykowski . It's no disgrace being after
Tom so a little bit bad luck with the food refusal, but hey that's the championship, so no and then again
-I don't believe that you're like hungry for Championships uh?
no for me
that was, of course I still want to show myself, and I think you should show yourself there, but
When I was younger I always bought like all the dogs or I took over all the dogs
And I started them so I could faster compete, but now I have more. I have that idea a little bit
Maybe I put it wrong in this drill
I want to do it faster, and I want to do it better so actually when I'm training a dog
I'm already thinking fuck. Why didn't I do it like this so and that makes it cool. I want to
Play yeah,and try some things and sometimes. Yeah, but that's a little bit my goal like
but my next puppy, it's
Born last Tuesday
The mother is a sister of your dog
So I'm looking forward to start with it, and I hope my goal is a little bit next year
I heard that it's in Russia the World Championships all breeds that I can compete there, FCI
Yeah, yeah - it will be interesting in Russia. -Yeah, I think oh it's nice
It's always in Europe now, and now we will go to Russia. I'm looking forward to that
Oh, I know it will be a little bit more expensive and a little bit more organizing, but ...Russia, come on
I'm saving money for it now so -nice so
You started competing with Zep and
Parallel to that you were doing also decoying -yeah -there was a time that you were doing like every competition decoying in Belgium or?
-At that moment I almost dare to say that I was like decoying yeah, 75% of the competitions in Belgium, yeah
But then with putting the focus a little bit more on dog training and there was a year that I competed with four dogs
So that's a lot of training. It's a lot of traveling so then decoying went a little bit down
It was a matter of priorities, lets say
Yeah, yeah the goal went more to dog training -so your heart is more to dog training than decoying?
What do you say? -I wouldn't say so
When I was younger I wanted to be decoy I want to show myself, I still want to show myself nothing about that
But then decoying was a little bit. I felt myself important there
and now I want to show more with my dogs still I
Enjoy decoying on training. I still enjoying that in competition, but I like more the the building up. Yeah, I
Get often that
when I
Participated last year at the super selection I get that comment that
I became more training decoy than a competition decoy but I understand so I think
From young years I had like I said guys like Jos, Steve Seynhaeve. Maybe you know he won several times world champion
Freddy Seynhaeve, big names standing behind me so and they were
Very fast I wanted to decoy competitions
They were very fast mm-hmm
You have to learn it when you can learn a dog you can read the dog when you can read the dog you can provoke
The mistake on a competition it will make you a better decoy
In these days you can see a lot of decoys that they were really athletes oh
-holly shit yeah
-really fast and everything but sometimes they are missing this
-Fire ,how can i explain it -oh, no. It's not fire because I see
It's experience
But hey there are like I don't know like now the average age
in Belgium from the good decoys that they're like 20 years old oh wow give them five years and
I'm happy that I can compete now, and we will see in five years
So I wouldn't say it's the hunger that they miss it's the experience so just give them some slack
And I think fuck we have some very good young because now
So looking forward to future -at the moment you're not in Belgium. -No. I'm living in Norway. I moved to Norway oh
I'm bad with dates. I think I'm living now in Norway for four or five years. Yeah, so
How come and you left Belgium? -were you ever in Norway. Yeah you were
You were freezing then I
-i warned you um no, it's they have a lot of beautiful girls there
No, no, I don't know I came to
to Norway and and I was there for a seminar and and the feeling is right?
People are less
Yeah, yeah people are less stressed they are
Yeah, they're open. They're yes. Yeah, I feel
Youre matching better there in the character - yeah, yeah better, I wouldn't say others
Otherwise, but the thing that I really feel this it's it's very relaxing. I always joke with my colleagues
It's like I say in Norway they're living 20 kilometres now slower than in Belgium. You know in Belgium
We are working, and we're already busy with what we can do after work one always more
Relaxed people. Yeah, I like the the mentality there. It's a little bit bad with mondioring dog sport
How you manage that?
It's a very delicate matter
Actually by law it's not allowed
to do any bitework
Yeah, it's I don't know the exact word, but the law says something. It's
Forbidden to train your dog to protect itself
towards other animals or other
People so it's it's a very I know the Kennel Club then you can puts a lot of working together with the IPO
people from Norway
they also have problems with ipo?
They have a special thing because they say the whole idea is that
the big problem from monitoring is that the bite suit, you know it's like sending your dog on while I'm
When we training I make a lot of effort in the social aspects
and in that what you're saying about the suit is a little bit because
Practically, there is no difference between the sleeve and the suit even
Even in IPO they need more aggression than we need in mondioring
Yeah, yeah, I think so - but I think in mondioring
It's a little bit a problem from mondioring people also that they promote like mondioring is more like real life or something
That can be
Yeah, people think that because it's a full suit it's closer to real life is like more life threatening than IPO or something
Yeah, I think also that that's a little bit wrong interpretation because both IPO ring sport mondioring
They are programs developed to to test the quality the breeding quality of our
breed or breeds in general so I think it's a
it started at least like that
Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly like for example the KNPV that's really a practical
orientated sport
well when the dog bites the sleeve is very well... many see the suit as a jogging you know something that normal people running in
Well, I think it's like
-but its really stupid that
in my dog training
I don't see a decoy i see a big biting tag
And I worked like that there has to be a good relationship for me the decoy has to be the friend of the dog -I think
Now the modern competitions you cannot
Compete with a dog that is not clear -no way no way because there's so much going on on the field beside the field
When you have a dog, that's not good in the head. -you cannot make it
Exactly. I compared a little bit with a boxer have an aggressive boxer
He will lose because he has to think, so I think
That's my feeling about it -so except
Except you have problem, I'm guessing it's more difficult in Norway because you don't have so many fields that you have a Belgium or decoys or helpers
Exactly. Yeah well
we train a lot abroad also
Yeah now Sweden recognized Oh, thank god mondioring, thanks Swedish kennel club
so we
living on the border of
Sweden, and then I'm having my contacts in Belgium, so yes we fix something there
And how is there now we are talking about this the policies?
the policies in Norway about the pinch collars, e-collars? -zero tolerance
zero tolerance
It's I would say
I don't know again the exact law but to give an example we had a family dog and the person went on the internet and
Saw, how you could solve a big problem the dog was a little bit aggressive, with collar she did a nice job
She tells a breeder her breeder tells the government she went to jail
Yeah
-that zero tolerance
Exactly plus on your record comes because everything's written you cannot own any dog anymore
So it's not it's really a zero tolerance policy. It's they don't laugh with it
so
Of course you work only with clicker :P
-that was a funny one
no, I'm working with the clicker. I'm teaching my dog with the clicker, but I don't believe zero you know correction
I think in the learning process you can do that all positive, but once you go into you have to assurance
yeah, I believe the pressure is also needed because I
we have talked about it with other people
It's really important to teach your dog
What pressure is because he cannot live in a world without pressure?
-Exactly -living in a world is pressure -exactly. It's and its also you know like mondioring 3 tomorrow
You stand 45 minutes on the field?
The dog knows very fast after the first five minutes that you don't have a ball with you
So there has to be something extra, and then I speak about social pressure for myself
Social social pressure, you know it's me. That's there and I am still it's superior
It's the same like maybe again a comparison and maybe some people don't agree with me, but your boss he pays your salary
Okay, that's your motivation to work
But he also has a motivation because when you don't do your best it will kick you out
And that's the correction so you know
-its more fair like that
-Exactly -because you know -I say more clear. I think yeah, so yeah, it's a little bit
- That's also thing that annoys me a little bit and i probably with this interview gonna
hit something against the knee, but I hear too many people speaking also on Facebook here about pure positive training I
believe in that, but I don't believe year after year competing at a high level with just positive
and the thing is that you can make, i hear also this
Arguments about how they can train for example whales with pure positive the thing is that okay? If you put a dog in a box?
with no with zero
Let's say it choices to show his genetic
drive let's say of course and if you starve him you can work with him with positive
Then only the thing is that starving also what isn't that a pressure?
Yeah, starving brings stress, stress means pressure
Exactly, but you had a good example with the dolphin this stuff that they train
but I never saw I went to a bunch of shows because I think
The modern dog training it comes a lot from girls like Karen Pryor dolphin trainer
But so I was interested in those shows
But I never see them doing a one and a half hour show or 45 minutes
so let's say it with one dolphin without giving one sardine. Yes, so
Well so and that's something that we don't have like I said 45 minutes
You're standing on the field and the only thing what we have is ourselves without ball
and the next
Well the topic goes next that if dog sports are good
You know this is the next argument people have
Yeah, you know if it's cruel to do dog sports. I mean I have heard even arguments about
Okay, let's say the aesthetics from biting sports. I can understand
I don't agree of course, but I can understand
But the aesthetics from dog dancing or dog frisbee there are arguments that this is cruel to the dogs also
You know this comes from a lot of extremists
the dogs have to be like they are
Like they are they shouldn't be with a human. - No I can of course not speak about
Dog dance and dog frisbee but I think is incredible cool. I know like now the crufts. It's when I see those videos
It's like oh wow you know they're high-tech trainers, and I see a lot of tail waving there
and my experience says tail waving is usually a quite positive way and and - from my experience then I
Know when I don't train with my dog I see a nervous a little bit Restless dog at home
Well when I have training again withmy friends. We're training four or five times a day, I'm
Coming home Sunday evening and sitting in my couch tired myself, and I see my dog
Yes falling down
satisfied relax
Come on. That's a good feeling
i agree completely
and not all breeds were created for the same reason -yeah
and all breeds have the same like no matter if I see that with hunting dogs and the
Some of my clients they get hunting dogs for pet dogs that they were strays and stuff
No matter what you do with this dog like to put the energy out
You can clearly see the big difference if this dog puts his energy in his genetic well
They are bred for a reason
there is a reason that we made from our wolf to what it is today, so I think yeah a
dog needs a task
i think everyone needs a task
Yeah, I had a year that I wasn't employed I felt myself hopeless it's a bad example again, but
task is like I mean the purpose in life. Let's say we do it like mentally, but it's there for all animals
-Yeah, exactly -and I think most of people
let's say psychological problems comes from
Not clear purpose in life. -Yeah -like what I'm doing, and depression comes -exactly and I think
I think what I also see is
Dogs getting more and more a position not in the house nothing, but like a family they eating on the table
They're sitting on the table. They stay dogs I mean
you can take good care if you do, but I don't think you do him and
Advantage so it's sitting with you on the table and stuff
-and this is my I mean for me the most unfair thing because
For a dog and what I've seen
Often is that the old trainers in Greece we had a lot of hunters so
Most of hunters in Greece they are not famous for their training
welfare or techniques whatever but
Even with this hardcore way of training
You couldn't see really disturbed dogs psychologically -that I believe actually
Like the dogs are like you say they're eating with their bosses. They're sleeping together. They're going vacations together, which I don't say it's bad
But the thing is that the role that we have put to the dogs It's not clear for them
Hunting was a clear, the first is that, so you hunt or I
kick you whatever I don't say I agree again, but it's clear also
You know the first thing is that and the second thing is that hunting was putting a lot of
Energy out for the dog, but -holy crap yes - it was fulfilling the big drive
So in the house the dog is fulfilling like the need of the pack drive
Let's say to be fulfilled is like 5% and the other 95% is ours so this creates
thats the funny thing that you said, I think often people are
Doing more to to be busy to satisfy their own guilt towards the dog because they're working the whole day
And then I think that's wrong
my opinion my own opinion -I agree completely and this is the reason people are getting dogs also
All me also. Yeah, I guess you also. I mean we're getting dog to fulfill some our needs of course
Yeah, I think is that due to fulfilling our needs where is the dog standing? -exactly
Do we do we care about the?
Needs of the dog or we put our needs projecting into the dog - It's often ourselves we are selfish
selfish specie on the planet
So okay, so now what are you doing this this period? -this period im watching a lot of Netflix
-you should see stranger things ;)
i didnt see that, ok
it's um
So I sold my dog before Christmas
-Nike? -Nike yeah, to Malaysia
So then the plan that I would take a new puppy
But the female the sister of Nike she decided to wait a little bit longer with her coming in heat than expected
So now I'm actually the first time in my life and really my my life
When my parents went to the hospital and delivered me
The first thing what they did was driving to the dog club and to the market for buying me a poodle
so
That's a whole life I had dogs
So this is the first time in my life
And I notice I get a little bit fatter and a little bit more lazy
And then so I'm really looking forward he he's born last Tuesday and ahh...
So, but I'm still
Active helping my friends who select who we're competing yesterday in level one
-So Sweden? -Norway, so I'm still helping then
It's it's I could not just stay home, then I would get that I would get restless so
I'm still busy with it
*Montage burn out, sorry :)*
You were also selected from the super selection for the world championship in FCI next year?
Yeah, In Bilbao level 3 yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It was didn't go according to plan
In Belgium the rules for the decoys you have to remake licence every four years
So then I was there competing with my dog. I said I will participate at Super selection and I'm for four years good again
So but apparently I did something good
And the judges like me so I was second selected after Loic
Decoy that will be last year was standing on the world champion very good decoy very nice guy also
So now I'm looking forward it. I'm a little bit scared
I'm not so young anymore like I was I did get some championships in the past
when I was younger so
And also Spain it will be like 20 degrees while in Norway it's like three degrees
No, but I will be ready for it, I'm looking for it -i wish you all the luck! and we will meet there also
Probably you're gonna compete there cool
Now your breed is the malinois?!? -yeah -and you will stay there i guess
I don't know out of the litter that I'm expecting a puppy from it can be that it can be Tervueren so
It will be the bloodline Malinois. I have to say I incredible like the German Shepherd also
why?
I think they are more dog than a Malinois you know
More dog than I speak about how they look you know more dog. You know there are little more rougher
the bigger heads
so
Yeah, I wouldn't say if I could find let's say I have two dogs the same quality German shepherd and malinois
I think maybe I could take the German Shepherd
So looking forward in a couple of years because they are really on their way back to German shepherd
They're coming from far, but when I see lately at the World Championships. IPO FCI all breeds
Yeah
Definitely so ya know
I'm not really a guy
well I can appreciate a good dutch Shepherd
I know you have some and so I I yeah, it's it's I know now for Belgium for the World Championships FCI
there's a Border Collie selected a so cool great
All that
Yeah, I know there's a Border Collie a
Participating there so I'm really I'm open-minded
And I think I respect everybody with whatever breed they have I know what effort
I have to do to get where they want to come
How cold how wet they get by doing it so?
Yeah, I just take the Malinois because for the moment for the sport that I chose yeah, exactly exactly any other
big choice in them also so I for the moment i think -the same thing that
I like both breeds, dutch shepherds and the malinois
The truth is that in Malinois you have much more choices, and the genetic pool is huge
I asked this question not because of the FCI mainly but in general about the whole
new era of you know the policies about the purebred dogs or
NVBK dogs or KNPV dogs or mixed breed dogs you know this
Started because there is a problem, and there's a hole that it has to be filled else there is no logic
-Yeah - you know because normally the database was build up so that we
evolve the breed yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so why
there has to be a
serious reason to put again
Bloods inside
not
registered what's your opinion about that ?
I cannot really say a lot like I said my first male Zep he was like
not hundred percent right
I will say that I think I think that the kennel clubs and the FCI is busy with it with those things
There are for example. I don't know all the country for example Belgium has a possibility to let your dog
Who has not a pedigree register to show that the dog is?
Is that possible in Belgium?
Yeah, yeah, yeah
in all breeds?
I just know the malinois has it and I don't dare to say, but then you get like -this is because maybe maybe
It's a national breed malinois. Well. You know so maybe this is possible because in general in most of the countries because we had this
The dutch Shepherds also that in most of the countries is not possible anymore to register
The dutch shepherd you have it also in Belgium because a good friend of me does it like that
-Jean?
-Jean Lobbinger
And he's quite fanatic. He doesn't want to cheat anything with pedigrees he wants to okay
he breeds a dog without pedigree, and then he does it
You know to the exposition showing that he has actually a dutch shepherd, but that he has all the teeth everything what it needs
And I so so I think really the Kennel Club's are busy with it
It it stays a sensitive matter
Fuck and I have friends that breed dogs with NVBK papers, KNPV papers
But what I've seen I mean
About the reality I mean you have seen dogs and for sure you have seen NVBK lines. -Yeah, of course, I'm
Growing up in that
What do you think of that I mean there has to be something there
for the people, you know to take this risk because if you are an openly
breeding
dogs outside of the FCI like it happened before some time even if it was canceled later
It's really possible that you can have problems not even you your offspring also, -yeah
Yeah, I understand and then I understand that the people want to take risk
But again I come back to there is a possibility to do it legal. Why not trying and doing it legal or
all malinois are going down a little bit to be honest do we gonna solve it with taking dogs that we don't know
Yeah, because there is a reason that we have pedigrees the reason that we have pedigrees that we can look exactly back tack tack
tack tack tack and that we are honest in the bloodlines what are the
diseases
Weaknesses, strong parts the bloodline I always choose to go in the same bloodline that I know what the strong sites are I know what the weak
Spots are -and also as a breeder you can continue this - and that's
When you know the pure pedigree of the dog me as a new breeder
I know that ok I take it from Kees this dog so these
Parents were from there
Yeah And then I take from another guy another dog and I mate them and due to my brain this will come out
-exactly -if the pedigrees are broken it's like really a luck
Like I've seen well special in the dutch shepherd, but it's more often
There is a big difference between the KNPV I'm talking about because the biggest market of dutch shepherd is the Holland
outside of the FCI, and then you see the FCI dutch shepherd
And you can see it's a completely different breed the malinois is the same with a lot of bloodlines
I would say even in the malinois it's worse
It's you speak now about beauty lines and thing -no i talk only about working lines
Yeah to come back on the
varieties within the belgian shepherd varieties
If you see just if you look around you see the, it's perfect here you know
it's paradise you see
agility obedience
IPO german IPO dogs
yeah you can pick out 10 or 20 you put them beside each other and they're all look they are different and
And that's the nice thing so that they are all bred it for their own
Purpose even within the malinois breed so I think it's a nice and so that I think
Made the Malinois
Today what it is that different
sports
It's good for you know when IPO dogs missing a little bit that
Stupid roughness they can go to KNPV when we need a little bit more intelligence we can go to obedience. I just yeah, it's
dog sports
They're getting so sophisticated in training its
-yeah, i wanted to ask you that that I can see dogs that they are trained
or maybe countries you know some countries they have a big and long culture in dog sports in dog training like a
Holland or Belgium -France Germany the big countries actually the big 4
But I see for example in Holland
the old guys of course they are training the old style not all of them but most of them , in belgium also
But there you can see , if I want to take a
Really hard dog i would go to these trainers that are breeders also
so it's obvious that as much we are covering the holes of a dog because of our
Good quality of training the dog does not "have" to evolve
Kind of you know what I mean, so if if I can solve all of his problems
Why should he
genetically
evolve to my... -and I think that's as a trainer a very
Important thing it's not so much about the good qualities of the dog
But it's the bad qualities that you're able to work with them and make them better
so I think that's and that's also why I stay I'm always in the same bloodline I
know the weaknesses, and I know how to fill them up sometimes they still show, but you know so I
Think that's that's an important
factor to say it like that -and it's a good question that
i don't remember who told me that when you're going to buy a puppy don't ask which are the
strong parts, but ask which are the weak ones -exactly and that often the breeders forget to tell
-So I like
-selective memory
-Exactly. I that's also why I like I said, I stay in the same bloodline and also I have a certain
breeders that I always go back to I trust them they they tell me like "Kees.."
Don't think that you can go there
for a puppy selection and in 24 hours you can choose, which is the best puppy
And you don't know you you're not raising them so today the most
shitty puppy tomorrow will be the hardest, okay, so
For me it's still important that and what I do is that I'm choosing breeders that I trust
I tell them what I need and then I just
Hope that they will fulfill my needs with a dog -because when you go choose a puppy
It's yeah, like you say. It's even when you go three times looking. You know it can be three times different
now
Testing and stuff. I don't really believe in it
I really no no no no no no no I believe you go look into a litter
you see the puppies, and they're straight away
That's it you know and then you start testing and but you make the tests in that way
that the one that you want comes out. I believe like the last litter and Nikes' litter my breeder was not agreeing with me
She said you have to take this is one that she kept later
This one is really for you Kees but I said no, I wanted this that says Papa, Papa, Papa Papa normally
I wouldn't choose that one, but I said I want to try something else and it works very out well, so
Yeah
Following the heart -and it's you know we have some common friends and
They said that you have evolved in dog training really fast and
extremely in the another way, but what you have to say? - I knew that this one would coming yeah
Then for sure
The result we saw in the world championship with Nike... -I think he liked to work well
That was maybe the problem with my older dogs
Yeah, I'm raised in Belgium in Belgium has a quite tough culture I think
Everybody knows that a little bit, so I'm raised as a young guy and in that so for me
It was normal to use all the articles that and then how are they used?
But then with moving to Norway like I said
There's zero tolerance it could end my never had a dog in my life, so
And then also the people that i train with it's mainly girls obedience girls, so they're in obedience
they challenged me and
And in that way I went yeah
I could not do what I could when I was living in Belgium
When I go visit my belgian friends they're all like
"Kees what are you doing??", i also had a very good input
From my Swedish friends
They have the same problem as we in Norway, they have to train positive so they brought a lot of input
Then some Norwegian friends
And I thought look there is another way
Difficult for me, I'm raised with that old
It's not old-style training. That's wrong
It's another harder way from training
And I noticed now when I'm and I'm coming in a problem at a young dog
How fast I want to go to that system again because it would solve a lot of problems so fast
But I cannot justify it in my head anymore
-i have a question for you
Not your friends, or you but in Sweden or Norway people that they're training dog spots. They're not using pressure?
Of course they're using pressure, but there are many ways of pressure
Not giving the ball or giving the ball, but the last moment... - do you really think that you can train a dog
for high level in in-ring sports for example without an e-collar?
Think you can train the dog perfectly
Without a collar yeah, I really do. Nike maybe people don't gonna believe me. He was completely trained without collar
Would you have asked me this question?
Five years ago, I would have laughed straight way in your face impossible yes
I think it's possible -but that with which kind of dogs?
-Exactly exactly and not just that I'm living in Norway now Norway
We don't have a big mondioring culture so that means that I can qualify myself with two competitions
While my Belgian friends they play every 14 days so when I have a problem, I have three months to solve it
They have 14 days or a week
For example my friends my Belgian friends from the IPO. I spoke with a huge name
He played last week a selection competition for the FCI
You understand what I mean, then you often need some. Let's call quick fix or easier fix so
Can you train a dog completely without collars to level 3 yes
Can you hold him in that level for five six years? I don't know I'm
Till now when I had a good dog. I usually sold it so I
Don't dare to say it. I don't gonna lie and I don't even got an opinion if I think it goes it doesn't go
training till level three yes, I saw it and I have now with training the positive I
wouldn't say that It's not only clicker, nothing about that but more positive. I created a little bit a group we have in Germany
Some people are training that way we have in Spain who does French ring sport who train that way
Portugal another group and and we meet up we give seminars to each other
So and it's proven my friend in Spain she played 380 points in French ring. That's good
So
Yes, you understand what I mean
So I yeah it is possible 100% sure and again if you would ask me five years ago with it
no way, but yeah, and of course the type of dog
i don't know if it's the type of dog or how you raise it like
Since I'm living in Norway my dog lives
Beside me lives in my room so my relationship is with me, when I was living in Belgium
I had nice kennels in the backyard my dogs were living there
that have to do with it -what is your opinion about it when you have a good sporting dog
Would you do you think that living parallel as a pet dog is a good thing or a bad thing
Think it's perfectly it goes perfectly
And I think I start to hear it more and more
Emma she played today 291 points Emma is super trainer
Her dog was sleeping this night in the camper beside the kids so I think it's perfectly possible
I had a little bit earlier today. I spoke again with a big name in IPO in Belgium Nick Vannerom
He had now a young dog that he bought from
from Norway also raised in the house and stuff and
He said you know that it it is perfectly possible, so again five years ago ask that question, no no
So the thing is that it's the next and last question for this matter
Just because it is possible does it mean that
Let's say
You had a border collie qualified
for IPO
does that mean that border collies are for IPO?
You know I don't want to say that
It possible with one border collie does that means that is the
normality that? -no it's not normality, but I'm gonna answer back on that I predicted
Five six years ago at the fmbb when I saw them training there when I saw themthere doing the mondioring there
I said fuck if we keep on going like this if our training. What's a good thing it gets so sophisticated?
We gonna need Border Collies
Because Border Collies are easy to handle easy to learn they're very fast learners, so yeah
So it's good at my prediction. He's coming through so when I was in ten years. We'll be
It's quite unique and congratulation for that guy but
Yeah, a couple of years ago I saw Mia Skogster
with Räty
i saw her livestream her video and I was like oh, that's retrieving. It was like like you're a
Bullet and like a bullet back. It was like whoa and then very strange that same evening I saw the video from
Dog dance at the crufts
and I thought
Is there still place for?
Innovation is there still place for doing that is it possible to do it better?
Like it was like I get it now even when I felt I get goosebumps. It was so perfect so fast so
detail
where does it stop?
Not only that the thing is that
i think you can't compare not not good or bad of course, but I mean this because in the
in the ring sports
Don't think you can really have this type of image in
Obedience because the bite work comes if you want to have a like
you said a super intelligent dog, but you can really work in detail with him
Then it's really possible that you will have problem in bite work
-Why -if someone is more intelligent he has a
has more
dynamic to understand the environment
circumstances
You know so this means that for him he makes better and more, he is
analyzing more
Before he makes a decision
If someone is less intelligent let's say he gets into situations more easily
Mm-hmm a
do you agree with that?
In human beings I don't wanna talk about it i gotta bring it to dogs
When you are oh, I can bring into persons also when you're a smart person
You can analyze the situation and you can also analyze how you can avoid and solve the problem, so
I'm gonna give it to an example
The accessory it's always a little bit although my dog do it and then I ask a lot of young decoys look
The accessory my dogs a little bit insecure of it
How do we gonna solve it then he says, the most of the young decoys say you have to train harder and harder and harder
So when you come up competition, it's easy
I'm not training like that. I learned my dog instead of thinking on the accessory I
Let him think on the decoy
How do I do that?
the moment the dog enters the accessory I let the decoy do a flee behind the accessory so I changed the idea from my
Smart dog he will not be like "oh oh the accessory will be hurting me"
no, he will be in his head in his mood the
decoy runs away, so
He will forget the accessory
But this does not change the argument
Just because the dog think he can solve the situation does not mean
He has the soul
You know what I want to say. -It's very easy from a two horsepower
Car you don't make a Formula one
I understand that and that's also I said you have to know the weak spots of your dog of course
Yeah
Yes, but for me. I prefer smarter to say it like that -for me also
It frustrates me a lot to train with a dog (stupid)*
Well in the past. I had the die hards
I promise you I had but I came on the field and I know that they were busy with themselves because that's also
Bit less smart like you say they were working just for themselves well
The smarter ones know that their daddy is there and when there's really a problem that he will show me how it's done you understand
It's another feeling um. I know I still have it my belgian friends often laughters about that
Nike my
Super dog, but a sport dog I remember that I played the FMBB last year
And I said to him attack and the moment he went I did this because I saw the accessory before I was like
Before the stick attack attack
Every time straight in and while there were stronger dog that passed so he solved it in his way
Gives it a good feeling. It's sometimes a little bit stressful
Well with my old dog Zep attack
whatever
When I put him on the guard of the object I went in the blind and I was like ok
Doot-doot ok I can come back well now with Nike for example. I was like
Looking to know what's going on there, so
on the other side it is such a good feeling to come on the field when he is daddy daddy daddy um
yeah, it's but it's it's it's different. Yeah
And it's a thing and a very nice thing to discuss on the bar
And it's often discussed on the bar, and I think often without any solution so it's one of those topics
so, but I in that way I changed completely to my
In the type of dog that I search for I choose the smart one knowing that there will be complications
Agreeing, but when I would take the tough one the harder. I know there would be other complications
Yeah, yeah
and and also in the environment that I
Am living now in Norway and also the obedience people that I'm training with I really cannot have it anymore
That hard, plus also my main decoys are girls
I cannot have the machine like Zep 35 kilos doing an attack , knowing that even in Belgium the decoys went upside down
i don't want that anymore I cannot have. my heart bleeds a little bit from it nothing about that
But you know I have to be smarter
So back to mondioring
What do you think of the level and what do you think how mondioring is
was and will be?
I can call me already a little bit old school at way I was not in the beginning
But quite in the beginning, and I see a serious
evolution in that it's um
i think in the old days it was war I saw gladiators decoys that went for the kill
Yeah, yeah
You know they're proud their masculinity dependent on how they went on the dog so it was another type of dog
What you also saw like my friends?
Steve fuck
He every time comes back with the dog, and he even mentioned it
in his times 340 350 points you were a world champion
Now we have to play 380 390 points
so
I see a change In mondioring
Like we spoke earlier about
It's not really a test anymore for the breed, it's
-sport -yeah, and I know Bart Bellon a big name
He said to me when I was a young boy
-to you? -not to me we were in a group and he said look French ring is for the decoy
IPO is for the trainer's
Belgian ring sport is for the dog
and and
That was then I don't think it's now anymore even when I go to the Belgium ring sport or the NVBK
They're super trainers those guys. They have super decoys so yeah and the same with mondioring
it's it's evolving so yeah, it's it's
-but nowadays
I'm younger than you for sure in dog sports
But even me I cannot see any more
dogs that they you know when I see them I
Feel respect like from how they look, Torky style of dogs
It's more famous now Torky that's why I mention him
You know what I mean that you look at them, and you feel respect -but it's also a discussion and maybe again
I gonna now hurt a friend of me
Talking all due respect and I see the bite is like oh I saw him biting. Holy crap. That's a crocodile
I don't want to be there between but it just shows bite it's something else to
to there for 45 minutes on the field, but that you know you understand
I go back to my old time when Bouvier's my father did the breeding test made with the Bouvier
And I had then at that moment a Bouvier that i did mondioring with , not good low level. It was start
I was a young guy and
We went to a breeding test and there was a Bouvier Beauty Bouvier
and one of the tests was the Decoy runs runs to the dog and the dog has to bite
and then out
Now the beauty dog what happens?
He bites
No out no out completely not they went they pulled him, okay, but I came with my dog
He had the perfect out, but when the decoy came he was like oh you
People were like "did you see that dog that didn't out? Did you see that dog?", we have a visitor
What if you would what if that
What if that's beauty
Bouvier would have that perfect out have that perfectly control would it be still having that bad neck bite
staying in bite
like
I don't and I know many people see the videos of Torky for example and
All due respect he has a super bite, but that's the only thing you see
I want to see him jumping. I want to see him doing the guard
I want to see him solving problems -but I think Torky is more famous because of his offspring
definitely , i don't know how many times he bred and fuck I saw
I saw offspring of Torky who are perfect dogs there, so nothing about its again
but you know what I mean, that style of a dog, you don't see it anymore in the field
no and then I'm happy that there are guys and maybe I now gonna with other people that you have guys like Christoph
That's still and okay Christoph, maybe he has his own opinion
But fuck he gonna be good in the future
We gonna need guys like that, and I know you have in Holland also some of those
I know yes, even guys that breed pedigree dogs that have it so no I respect them
and
I also understand what you mean it is yeah
There is no dog in
as Decoy also , you take dog that you don't feel "respect" for them like
Let's play yeah, you know yeah
but it's also a little bit the way of training and so we create a little bit that playing dog because
Torky it's pain in the ass on the field there he will bite that will be
no problem that it's possible after one attempt in the guard of the object that is like "oh I have to go get him"
so
Yeah, it's it's
-a balance that it's difficult, I mean
Especially I think it's this is a problem when you are a trainer, and you're a breeder and you to balance
yeah , I could never breed, too much principles to take care no no no no
All due respect for breeders
So but I understand what you mean um
like I say in the old days it was but it's also a little bit more and now maybe gonna
talk with my
decoy colleagues
It's more a game a technical the decoys are very very
Technical very you know with the accessory with the stick with the accessory very good in the esquive very fast
But I'm missing that I gonna go for the kill like I said earlier. You know when I started
There were gladiators
Oh they were Spartacus
That went for the kill on the guard, i saw on the guard of the object
bottles of water that
decoy said listen, it's you or me somebody gonna die here
That I'm missing a little bit, but fuck the decoys now way faster way more they using more there
Well, then it was and that creates of course that you come with another type of dog
I don't call them worse better in a different type of dog is it good future future
Other discussion my personal opinion no we need Torkys we need Zeps
But you start to see them less less
-but this goes with the society, society gets softer and softer
of course and also in like -I mean the old me wouldn't take interviews i would have to cultivate land
It is really um
It's actually a nice thing that you mentioned that it's the the public opinion that there was a big discussion in
IPO about using the soft stick, you know it doesn't hurt the dog I understand it
but in people that doesn't know anything about dog sport it stays a hit on the dog and
countries like Germany Belgium
Even there they are talking over already about the e-collar
banning it more humane ways of training so
-but the thing is that until when?
You lower
standards? -Yeah - the problem is that all these laws and all this agenda
Let's say it comes from people that they are not into dogs
-No -not even dog sports not nothing -no, but so important because they are the majority also yeah but also they're the majority
you know when people are looking here on the side like now here the street
There's just general people that passing they don't like it anymore that hard, hey I'm raised in that
I'm raised in Belgium
i can't even see it anymore, so it's
Yeah, we have to evolve it with the public opinion for sure
So and that maybe goes on expense of the dog Yeah
-It's sad uh? -yeah a very good example, and I had mentioned the example earlier today with a friend also
i see in IPO for example I see a bunch of malinois that don't or barely get over that one meter
i know when I was a young boy, and when I was started during sport we didn't do x-rays
We didn't do it's good at the x-rays and the hips and everything nothing about but we didn't do that
we saw the dog 1 meter 20 when the dog didn't jump over we didn't start with bars with learning the
dog to count and doing the right step to go over 1. No, sorry. We get rid of it. We take a new one
When we had a dog that had a bad grip or was a little bit slow, we get it rid of it
We didn't work with the elastic parachutes. No no we get rid of it. We buy a new one that
-changed
Yeah
That generation fell away probably maybe in Holland you still find those and in Belgium also find those, but it's it really
Of course we should evolve
Of course yeah, yeah -we cannot do otherwise -no no and we have to follow the public opinion - but the thing is that
Does this evolution?
Goes to the positive direction, or it goes to the worst direction for the dog?
Well after all we are still making what we like. We are still fulfilling our needs, but with this evolution do we really
make the right thing for the dogs?
You mean the quality of the breeds for example? -in all breeds
-That's a very good question -since control came about which dog can breed with which dog
And which dog can have a pedigree or not depends on his outfit
Genetic problems got more
Yes but also genetic problems got solved. I give the example the German Shepherds. They were very bad
With the health issues, and I believe that the strength of the breed clubs
You know the the German Shepherd clubs and the tightness in the pedigree are not allowed to do that that that the strict rules what?
At that moment nobody liked it
But I think it brought the German Shepherd back to what it was, so I think it's also a good thing - for me control is
needed -it has to be there - but the thing is that who is controlling
Who sets the criteria?
That's really a political thing and I'm not agreeing completely what the political
But I also want to go against it my main thing and as long as I can do my thing here on the field
Like I said, it's they are more educated and than I am in that way so it's just
Yeah, yeah, and that's the discussion. I don't want to does it get better worse
My personal opinion. I think we get
Let's say it with the malinois for example
pure in health matters
I don't think it goes forward is it to blame on us as trainers or is it to blame on the politician
the breeders the Kennel Club's yeah the decisions. I don't want to point. I think we have both
to blame yeah, yeah
Like I said you see a good dog that you really like he is not
X-rays you will use him for breeding anyway for the qualities without knowing what's behind it
Does that make you a bad person? No your priorities are a little bit otherwise
For me for me health is important -number one! - yeah, definitely, and I spoke with a
Little bit back with the veterinarian over the military dog school, and he said look Kees
Five six years ago malinois putting on the table for x-rays was a formality
now Kees
And he does a lot of Malinois so he can he can tell he has a reason to speak and in
Holland
Veterinary the same they say the same, so it's a little bit yeah, I don't know
Let's say I know the breed is that I go to III just for me. They have to be completely x-rays
also the the
What's required by the Kennel Club?
But also what's not required by the kennel club I want to and also when I have
Yeah, exactly when I have have a dog and it's one year old
Within the week that it gets one year It's completely x-rayed
Completely and after a couple of years I do it again when he's fully trained because I really don't want to spend
Two three years of training and then playing competition finally, there to start and he starts limping
At least at least that's also a very nice thing that you mentioned that up a nice thing and a nice evolution that I see
People are way more busy with that because our dogs
IPO , mondioring, they are "Usain Bolts"
They are athletes and many of those people, me, we train every day
but
Usain Bolt has a Chiropractor . He has a doctor that takes every day
He has a muscle specialist and we take our dogs out of the kennel go on the field with a cold dog
You understand fuck all dogs are Usain Bolts, and doesn't matter malinois, German shepherds you know top sport dogs
So I think I think it
-I was talking about that yesterday with some people here. It's really not normal that
Even we are so sophisticated in dog training
We lack of.... I mean I talk with a lot of professionals and like
99% of them including me
and me i think
Well, we are not sure
about what is the best for the physical exercise for the dog and about the nutrition of the dog - I saw the diet of
that Australian swimmer Phelps, holy crap, every meal is counted , every meal and we just like
but of course Usain Bolt makes a little bit more money than I do so that's also a little bit...
yes but you are doing a big effort. I mean every day training
Traveling costs is
such a big invest to not have not only you I mean the dog world to not have the
clear knowledge about what is the best for the dog -but I think that becomes more and more awareness of that
I know here stands a Chiropractor that I saw always people at her thing so I think we're getting more and more
Yeah busy with that the nutrition and stuff it's a very sophisticated matter
I count on big food producers that they do the best and then they come now
And then look what we expect from our dogs that they yeah, so there is enough competition here, so they should do their best
but it's yeah, it's something that we maybe should take better care of to say it like that, but again
i think it's coming I think we are more more aware of
of going swimming with the dog building muscles
Another discussion a little bit in the same way that I had earlier
This weekend this week
What is the perfect built
for the dogs that we use do we wantUsain Bolt do we want a Kenyan marathon runner?
Or do we want the triathlete ?
I think we discussed too little about that I think it's important
What are your plans for the future in general in dogs -in dog sports?
my main goal is
The World Championships in Bilbao of course I have to train myself fit and then I'm looking crazy as a decoy yeah
And then the next goal is next year in Russia. I want to start with my young dog
It will be young I did some bets today, maybe I'll lose but it will be a goal
-You're also doing seminars. -Yeah, I'm giving seminars -you are doing also some nice decoy seminars
It's a
Little bit a hobby of me
and then it brings a little bit of money back to finance my sports so I do it a little bit and
most people that comes are quite happy and asked me back
So yeah, the decoy seminars, I think you were once join yourself, it was cold then uh? -minus 25
I remember it was crazy cold, so i think
Decoy education should be
Like I had to look like I said I had big names. I had champions
I had guys that were decoying judging world championships behind me, and I'm missing that too much now
it should be maybe a little bit more decoy schooling of
Course the decoy that I want to work with it's not the decoy that you want to work with its
But also I notice now if you have the younger decoys they are
You don't find a guy coming out of the blue almost anymore you have like
Some Belgian guys their father is doing mondioring
And then you have a big names of friends the father is doing so so they have it like
Well, it's very difficult as a new guy
plus also decoying like you said, i give seminars
i explain people how they can do it how I think it should do the best way ,how to move how to
control, even girls. It's now nowadays quite a hot topic. I know in Holland there are a lot of seminars for girls
It's super
I think they have the quality there are super good women that gets super trained
And why should I not put on the pants for us then I mean?
my main decoys are all women, and they are good I
i don't do a flee of 60 meters
they are better in patience
We cannot say that on the camera
You cant give too much credit
but it's actually true, and I like more to train with with a
Woman that understands or a young decoy that understands my training philosophy
then the young
the athletic decoy that wants to show himself
i think on a matter of the team
man working with a woman is, (not your girlfriend) *important notice, with other women is much easier
If I think back the people that I can work the best with is usually people a little bit older generation than me
Or like the women, and I think there you explain just how - you are keeping distance
and getting lower or you don't have to get in competition -yeah but still
i see many people putting on the suit, but I see very little decoys you understand what I mean um
In Belgium they say you can see on a guy how he puts the suit on
How good decoy he is now I have one of the girls that I'm training with like she puts the suit on she would be
the selective French ring, monitoring Belgian ring she would be like so I don't think it has anything to do that but
Yeah, a decoy is sitting here. It's born learning to read the dog
And when you do it because your father wants it or you want to do it because like I started for example
It's cool to do. I'm boy
Doesn't work. No it has to be a passionate and like me as a decoy
when I'm driving home from a training that i was already in Westerlo, I'm
Busy with my dogs that I trained not just my own dog, but also the dog of my friends
It doesn't stop in the field
Yeah, and sometimes I'm at home watching like
For the World Championships here, you know which decoys see you analyze the videos of the decoy, you
It's you know if you don't do it with your heart
It doesn't work - No no and if you do it for the money forget it
it just doesn't work. It has to be -and I think I mean all this concern about the Decoying
is like in building up is like 50% and even more in mondioring like from the train suit
in the bitework I would say it's almost even 80 90 percent
Yeah, definitely so for me the Decoy is a very important
-Issue -yeah
You are concerning a lot with someone else's dog so
this does not getting paid with money i thing this you know - no no no definitely
They could not pay me if they would if I would count
Yeah, that would could put me let's say a normal salaries they could not pay me it would be so
no, it's it, and if you then do it for for the
glory
To say it like that you will have a short because you don't
You don't keep them in doing it and injure your body
Like when I started it, and I you know I I don't every morning when I wake up I feel my body
It's it's like and that it's not okay. I'm also working a lot, but it's going a lot from
-From the experience. -Yeah, yeah, yeah, so
Yeah, so in similar ways maybe we should make a little bit more effort than that more in the decoys yeah
There are not a lot of seminars for decoys - no, it's too little
I know like
Four or five people that they do seminars for decoys like serious. -Yeah, it's you know
Many good decoys doing, but they actually are not knowing what they're doing
That's wrong. Actually I say that wrong they they it's the natural thing
you know they they and they don't have to explain because the guys that I trained with trust their decoy so he never
-why he does things and how to explain the things he does
the seminar that i gave in Norway it was actually the first when you were there there was the first
decoy seminar or biting seminar that I ever gave for decoys then and I
was sitting in the couch before and I was like, okay. What do I gonna say?
You know because it's so natural. I won't
Just bring a dog
then you have to explain it I see that a lot of people that give seminar they're very good,
in taking the dog over and show how to do it but it's harder and it is hard
Like I know when I am going to the states for a seminar or something. I'm sitting in the plane making notes again just
repeating because for me It's so natural and sometimes like the guard of the object I have a step plan
Yeah, and then like written down, but I don't think about it anymore when I having a puppy
I think about them, but like now it's a routine going. Yeah, it goes
So I really have to pay attention to write things down
And then also like when you're in a seminar you explain you see people like
You know like and then when you write it down you give it to them
-in all seminars is like that -yeah
Well last question because of the decoying you said what's your opinion about
the decoying style in mondioring that has changed the last years like
the esquives are more and
The defense of the handler is more tight lets say -yeah ,yeah
Doesn't that goes a little bit away from the spirit of mondioring or the idea? -some times it goes away from it
Yeah, I agree with that -sometimes even in big championships It goes away from the rules also. -Yeah, yeah, definitely
There is a thin line and it's very difficult to
and to step over it, but I think that also has to do with with the innovation of
The training you know as a decoy. It's very hard of to take points of the dog, and that's the main
Main goal among the competition you have to help the judge -but there has to be logic uh
You know what I mean
Yeah, of course innovation, but the thing is that if you have a lot of accessories
you cannot
esquive also, so it's unfair. It's not logic. -Yeah -or
for the defense it's really a big conversation that about
hidden signals or the free style of defense of the handler I mean
It's it's I
Like today again. It's a hard defense. We have the discussions of the side
We still don't have the result, but I know there are signals for letting the dog bite that
It goes again combined to it of course the training gets better. The judge is getting more
hard and getting more inventive in their program. I think it's a little bit a cat-and-mouse game
you know between the handlers but hey
Yeah, it was always like that
you know it always was the trainers and decoys, the trainers became better the decoys and the judges became finding more and
More things yeah, I think
there has to be line of course we have the rules we cannot go out of them because
When you train dog you have to know what you have to train your dog for
But, but I think I just call the big plus that you know decoys
going a little bit more than that okay, and when you going on the edge
They are human beings that sometimes go on the wrong side of course judges the same. They're not
Gods, they make mistakes
So but I have to say like the last two championships that I saw the FCI in
Battice Belgium
super decoys
Super judging , last year at the FMBB after the competition I went to the judge I went to the decoys
Oh, this is really. This is the book and
The dog will as much as I know of dog sport how much I know mondioring the best dog won
Yeah exactly so
No, I think of course it gets hard it gets harder, but hey we get better trainers also so the judges are "haha"
and then the next time we as trainers are "haha", thats the fun game
It would be boring if
So and it keeps you...
Working so yeah, that's of course if I see the level how it changed
What will it be and I'm still young I'm 35 years old
and I'm already having like 20 years of dog sport of ring sport in my body so I saw already a lot I saw a
lot of people coming and go
I saw a lot of changing in the program
I'm looking forward to in the next 20 years, and I'm quite sure that in 20 years I will be still there
Maybe we will be talking again
but
Yeah, like earlier today I said in this interview
i saw that obedience in IPO
a couple of hours later I saw the crufts and the dog dance
Fuck what can we do then? I think if Karen Pryor , i look a little bit
up to her if she would
See what she brought into this sport the advanced training that the shaping that we do I think she
Cannot imagine that
I always say
Innovation comes with competition
So when you see Karen Pryor brought what she brought with the clicker training
If you see how it evolved this now
Whoa you know
And that would never have come by some doctors in whites
Studying an animal no no this would be you and me against each other in the arena
I want to beat you you want to beat me we have to be smarter and so
it's like a little bit like
the Predators drive like you have to be smarter than the other so you have to be to survive so
i have to go to work on Monday anyway, making my sandwich good. -but you know what I mean challenge is what evolves
definitely
all this innovation comes with competition. -Thank you very much for this interview.
It was nice doing it really nice meeting you again so and for sure we will meet in Bilbao
looking forward to that sister of Nike to see the higher level, good luck
and we can grab some beer
smart idea maybe first eating
You can find there more videos in my channel on the project
Interviewing Dog World we will have some more interviews from the FMBB this year and
don't forget to subscribe. Thank you very much
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