welcome to I love content I'm your host Laura Bergells and with me are Scott
Smith and Elizabeth Goede and our special guest today is Julie Zickefoose
she is coming to us from an 80-acre Wildlife Sanctuary in Appalachian
Ohio and other than writing and illustrating books Julie's also a
contributing editor to Bird Watchers Digest and she speaks she leads trips
and history excursions and she sings in a band and she even has a new book
coming out in 2019 so in other words she is a creative force and we are lucky to
have her POP by to talk about creativity for our Lunch and Learn today
so welcome Julie and I'm going to kick things off by asking you Julie where
does all this creative force and creativity come from oh boy you know
I've been I've been pondering this question I told you I was an over
preparer but it's true I kind of I kind of in answering that question I think I
need to get a little bit Jungian on you and this is not my field psychology but
I'm very interested in it and and Tom Laughlin who is a screenwriter and a
writer and also a Jungian psychologist says that there is this thing called the
self and in the self is the ego and hammering the way at the outside of the
self and getting into the self is the divine and creativity
I believe dwells in the divine it's something that comes from without it's
something that hits you or perhaps it can be soft generated but it's always
banging away on our door and what stands between creativity and the self is the
ego the ego is our everyday self that says oh I really ought to wipe these
counters and whoa you know gee I've got a lot of laundry to do and and oh you
know my husband won't like it if I write all day and you know so the ego is the
thing that's always mattering away and wrecking the creative force so
creativity comes from clearing away the resistance that keeps us
doing what we were meant to do I think and there are a number of examples of
that I had this really interesting revelation I read the writers Almanac
which is this lovely thing that comes in the mail it's from Garrison Keillor and
it's got a poem every time and it was talking about Emily Dickinson Emily
Dickinson is famous for just I mean her poems just knocked me out they're just
incredible yeah usually set in the natural world always incredibly
insightful and Syrian you know just just beautiful work um and Emily Dickinson
sort of was like in high society and just you know cavorting around with her
friends and everything in the belle of Amherst and then she just kind of
disappeared at around 35 and she was writing a lot of poetry and over the
years people have been speculating about what happened to Emily Dickinson what
was wrong with Emily Dickinson why was she always alone why was she a recluse
right and so that you know the speculations have been oh well maybe she
was an epileptic the meter of her poem sound like they were written by an
epileptic maybe she had a broken heart maybe some guy broke her heart and so
she went into seclusion maybe there was nothing wrong with Emily Dickinson maybe
Emily Dickinson wrote better when she was by herself
like I do like a lot of people do like we don't allow ourselves to be and so
I've been really exploring solitude I think creativity comes out of solitude
creativity comes out of clearing away the cruds that is in your head
that is in your way and a lot of the crud that's in your head that's in your
way is generated by people all around you're talking a lot or by the
television set talking a lot or by the radio bumming you out or whatever it is
so I guess I'm speaking from a position of having been mired in all the stuff
that keeps you from doing what you're supposed to be doing and suddenly seeing
the light and I feel really good about that I love that because a I love Emily
Dickinson and I did have a client we were talking about Emily Dickinson
and she said oh isn't it so sad that she was a recluse and I'm like no I really
loved that she did what she did in a way that she wanted to that she wasn't after
fame that she was after the creativity so how do you balance that with all the
different distractions that we have today and all the push of you know be
involved with social media and you know keep being out there in the world how do
you balance and that because I really really align with what you're saying
uh-huh well Emily Dickinson died at 55 with
1800 poems in her death so clearly she found the self herself very good company
and that was what she chose to do I think it frightens the world at large
when an artist says you know what later I've got stuff to do here I think it
bothers family and friends I think they just kind of say they don't they don't
have a way a lot of people of understanding what creative isolation is
all about and I and I guess I talked to a lot of women who say I want to do what
you do I want to write books I just want to write books I don't have time to
write books but I want to write books because I believe that you should make
it a having time is not the way to phrase it
making time is the way to phrase it making time I don't make time to write
books it's a whole different thing then isn't it mm-hmm
and so for me when I have I have my dearest friend is always saying I just
just don't have time to get my house in order
you don't make time to get your house in order and I were and I I correct her
every time and she loves me for that and she corrects me when I'm on the ceiling
she pulls me off but this is a you know it's about being the captain of your own
destiny and deciding what it is you're going to
spend this wild and precious life doing Mary Oliver is also considered a recluse
what a coincidence brilliant poet really a natural you know
poet incredible person so what if she spends a lot of time alone that's where
those poems come from so I guess I'm making a I'm making a plea for some
creative isolation I don't think we grant ourselves that and I just don't
think we do I think we think it's abnormal you know to want to want to
just shut yourself away and in your Tower and write but once you do and once
you get into that you know is it's a very powerful thing I really resonate
with that because at a very early age right when I graduated from with my
master's degree uh professor psychologist gave me the
gift of a psychological profile and he said Laura you're an extreme extrovert
and I said I think he might be mistaken about that because while I really like
people and I really enjoy being around people and I get a lot of energy from
being around people I really like my alone time and I like being among people
but it's like leave me alone otherwise no work will get done whatsoever
and I get really agitated if I don't have my alone time and I'm an extreme
extrovert apparently so how did weird is there a
balance that we need to have for creative isolation and our people time
well you know you're asking the wrong person has now been eight days I've
started my car so you know it's so funny I go to start my subaru and it goes and
I'm like what's wrong with you and it's like it's eight days so I I admit that I
am kind of on the other side of this right now because I'm finishing a book
so I'm kind of I'm I'm on the way other end of the spectrum but I also have a
problem with people dividing the world into extroverts and introverts I think
that's a problem because I think you can be a real mix
and there's nobody the party like you right and there's nobody who loves a
party like me but I like it when I want I don't want a party every night you
know if I partied every night I'd be
miserable so I think that every human being has doses of both and and I think
that what we're guilty of mostly is ignoring the introvert in ourselves the
person who has to be alone with their thoughts and collecting themselves in
order to produce something so I guess I'm just making a plead for people to
carve out the time to do what it is that sets them at peace and to grant
themselves unstructured time unstructured time is the greatest gift
any creative artist can have and and that's what we deny ourselves most most
frequently I think I see that as well I see children with so much structured
time and I had so much unstructured time and I'm not hearing a lot about this
whole introversion extroversion thing where people will act like introversion
is some sort of disease or if it's like this amazing social power and I have to
tell you I'm I'm kind of with you on the I'm not really believing that there is
such a spectrum I believe that we all have you know different personalities
but I'm not really sure that there's we should place so much credence on that
scale well I think it's very contextual and I'm always skeptical when anything
is presented as a dichotomy yeah thank you he's gonna fit neatly into two
buckets or one literally and the world is very nuanced and fluid and changing
and people are changing and people are gonna react to different circumstances a
different way depending on what they had for breakfast how much sleep they had
and whether and that they could annoyed by a person like they're speaking to
right now now that I got annoyed to buy it you might say I'm an extreme
introvert whenever I'm behind on a deadline and because I'm like people get
away from me I got work
hi I'm pretty much somebody that's all over the board as far as introversion
and extraversion so yeah I don't like dichotomies I didn't like one that my
friend came up with that everything in the universe is either a shark's tooth
or it isn't we we hit on something with deadlines right you just you just invoke
the word and there there was a corollary of this whole Union self with the ego
and everything and this guy Tom Laughlin works he's a psychologist who works with
terminal patients and he says that at the moment someone is given a terminal
diagnosis ie they have a very limited time to live their consciousness shifts
from the ego to the self they suddenly ask themselves well what is it that I
should have been doing all along what is it I should be doing they take up music
they go to their kids baseball games they visit their grandparents they do
things that have been shoved aside by all the ego stuff which is uh oh I got
to get this bill paid and I got it you know I gotta get this report in and all
that stuff that seems so important and was foremost in their life is suddenly
shoved aside for the heart stuff for the soul stuff and that shift of
consciousness that happens when you find out you have a very short time to live
is I would submit the same thing that happens when you get a big fat deadline
from your publisher it forces a shift of consciousness in you that says oh I
don't have much time left let's do what matters which is your work which has
always been what mattered but we need a deadline in order to make it matter to
us and so I like that parallel of and why is it called a deadline because
you're dead if you don't get it done right or that's that's after that your
contract is dead and you don't get paid right so I just I like that I like that
simile of or that metaphor of you know very little life to live or deadline
very little time to fool around and so you get to it brand um for my
book Saving Jemima I set myself a deadline of a year I experienced this
incredible thing with this bird that I raised this blue jay and I started
writing about her when the day I got her I just started writing because I knew
this bird was big and she wound up to have this incredible sort of picaresque
adventure of a life and all this crazy stuff happened and I'm writing the whole
time so by the time I released that bird I was well on my way and I just kept
writing and writing and then I started painting and the goal was a self-imposed
deadline up I'm gonna get a manuscript in exactly a year from the last time I
saw the bird the last time I saw the bird was December 23rd 2017 and I just
handed in the last chapter yesterday so I actually beat my own okay but it's
been a holy thing for me to be able to to put out an entire book written and
illustrated with 20 paintings and all the photographs 106 photographs get it
out just do it yeah you know so that's that's been that's been my go this whole
year and it's been amazing what you can put aside you know you don't actually
have to answer all 90 emails in your box that day you can let some of them age
until they ripen and then fall look it doesn't matter anymore
it's like first of all there's the reason the word dead isn't that word
deadline right and I love that I love a lot the other yeah about the having time
versus making time the same thing with answering the emails it's I have a thing
where I say it's not that I don't have time it's like that's not a priority and
there's just like okay my washroom right now is a mess
and it's been a mess now for three days but cleaning it up right now it's not a
priority we're talking about creativity he did exactly I think that one of the
things I have to remind myself is I have to
read the person that is sending me the email that says urgent do they have it
of quitting lots of exclamation marks and saying it's urgent when they can't
find the coffee filters or something like that and just like you have to take
the salt because some people are gonna find a way to get a hold of you if you
don't answer the text or the email something like that there's the people
that see you in the hallway to ask you if you got the voicemail about the email
they spend you have to like you can only give that so much effort it's just like
I used to be somebody that I have to answer this this and this right now and
then I felt that I used to work with manage 200 people and he said I checked
my email at 6:30 and 6:30 and that's it there you go
there you go let me uh that brings me to a point that is a new discovery of mine
years and years and years ago I said there shall never be a TV in the bedroom
no thank you not gonna happen and just recently I
realized that I'm using my phone as a TV so it no longer gets to come into the
bedroom either and the amazing thing that has happened since I did that is
I've started writing again so before I go to sleep I write when I wake up the
first thing I write is what I drink and creativity lives in the dreams the
divine comes to you through the dreams so if you write down your dreams you
remember them better the next time today is my dogs would be my dog's 13th
birthday and he visited me in my dream last night it was incredible yeah I
could steal him I could hear him he could talk it was amazing it was a
visitation had I not been writing down my dreams I might never have remembered
that I dreamt that but it's so precious to me so write down your dreams they
mean something every single one of them has all these rich metaphors in them you
can get essays out of a dream so write write with a pen on your hand
yeah and end thing about it as your penmanship
improves that's because they like the phrase write down your dreams because I
know people say live your dreams but if you don't remember what your dreams are
when you're working on a book and you're doing the photography and the
illustrations is there like one area that is more gravity than another do you
feel like okay I need to paint today or I need to write today or do your muses
ever fight for your time thank you for that question Scott that's a great one
yeah I have this thing I have the cerebral cortex that has a right half
and a left half and near the twain shall mix and the thing that that is my
particular monkey is that I love to write I could write hanging by one foot
upside down writing is therapy writing is easy
writing is fun for me painting I absolutely love to paint but only after
I've started doing it so I I set up a tremendous amount of resistance for
myself when I'm trying to get through that really thick membrane between the
right brain and the left brain the creative brain the right brain and the
left brain which is the writings so so what happens to me is I I have this
tremendous grinding of gears and and since I'm a linear thinker I get all my
writing done and then it's time to paint and then I basically goof around for
like weeks two months before I start painting my resistance walks in and says
hey hey shouldn't you really turn over that rhubarb bed before it you know so
it's really hard for me to start to shift gears right now I'm doing this
amazing sort of mix of painting and writing and and that feels really really
good but I know it's not really me I think it's just deadlines produced
just like the Kerouac story of him getting jazzed up to write and
then sitting with a roll of telegraph paper feeding into his typewriter
Truman Capote say that's not writing that's typing Oh
yeah sometimes it's just typing you know but but usually I think the thing that's
really cool about writing is that you don't know what you're gonna write until
you start doing it and then all this stuff comes out and I think that is the
subconscious channeling through because I'm doing that motion of writing with a
pen or typing it frees up the subconscious to start really speaking to
you at least it does for me and it's said that that quote writing is like
driving in the fog you can only see as far as your headlights but you can make
the whole trip that way right yeah yeah I feel that acutely too because I
participate in NaNoWriMo which is national novel writers month you
talk about deadlines you get your 30 days to write 50,000 words and there are
two approaches to it some people will say you know you have to have an outline
to write otherwise you'll never make it and then there's others
called planners and then the other half is called Pantsers and they're just like
just go in and start writing I find that I'm more of a plantser or a little bit of
both I have kind of a plan but once I start writing my characters and the plot
have a mind of their own and I might have ideas but it's like nope this
character's doing something else I got to see where this characters gotta take
me so that hey yeah yeah and it's all
generated from you but you don't really know that it's in there right do you
take write which leads me back to how you have to write those dreams off and
actually go through the process of writing to see what's going to happen
and would you recommend that even for people who aren't writers but for people
who are are like Elizabeth who is a painter and a drawer to say can you get
to drawing and painting through writing there's some things that I write
certainly beg to be beg to be drawn I'm beg to be painted I know Elizabeth what
do you think I'm back to this how I actually set and abide by my own
deadlines I'm very good when it comes to a client but I'm trying to figure out
how Julie you can and abide by your own deadlines do you
have any I do actually and they're really practical thoughts for me
deadlines are have always been sacrosanct because when I decided to go
completely freelance when I was gosh oh my gosh a long time ago I decided that I
would not have a boss anymore and I was going to be freelance and there were a
couple of things that floated up to the top and one of them is be absolutely
sure before you say yes I can do that that you can do it but not only that be
sure that you can do it better than anybody else could and that's why when
you guys approached me about this video conference I was like well I need some
more information I got really nerdy and I started emailing you guys because I
wanted to know what you expected I wanted to know what you wanted and what
would make you happy so I wanted to make sure that I could give you that that is
what I mean by being an over-prepare and I have only run into one freelance job
that was a horrible fit for me and because I didn't realize what the guy
wanted until after we were well into it and what he wanted me to do was to write
a book with all his thoughts and information but in my writing voice mmm
I was like oh okay so that's what you want so I lost weeks of sleep over it
because we had a contract and it was gonna happen and I realize I could not
bend and fold and me lay myself into that box that he wanted to put me in he
wanted my policy wrapped around what he wanted to say
so I finally just said I can't do this you know but that's the only time that
I've ever gotten into a job that far and then said whoa
usually I think I think it all out beforehand and make sure that I can do
right so as a freelancer that's it's just make really sure that you can do it
before you ever say yes and and then just
really super simple stuff make your workspace really nice you know you can't
work in clutter and junk and if it's a scented candle that you need or just the
right music on Spotify make it a treat to go into your studio you know make it
keep it nice as much as you can I mean you know when I'm working as I am now
there's just stuff strewn everywhere it's like a blue jay scan my blue jay
will take your your little cardinal anyway yeah try to make your studio
space really nice make it a place you feel like going when you walk in you
even happy sigh I got rid of all television when my last kid went to
college this fall I was like you know what never gonna watch it never gonna
turn it on if I need to watch TV I'll go to the neighbor's house or something so
that's gone and so this has been for me a process of throw bein stripped down
and it's really working well for me like I just I just went downstairs and I
admit to hang out clothes today but it's not going to get about freezing again so
I am four or unfurled my Amish driving rack in the basement and as I was
hanging the clothes on it in the dark I thought you are turning into Henry David
Thoreau what I'm trying to do is not use stuff that I don't really need to use
yahoos electricity to drive I've got time let's hang them up you know for
sure so and and what right if you can see with the light coming in the window
why turn on a light I know our time is running out and you know you you are a
prolific writer and we've got a lot of books you have a new book coming out in
fall of next year is that right tell us about that right yeah it's called saving
jemima life in love with a hard-luck jay and i mentioned earlier that that I'd
raised this bird but all this all this other stuff happened and it wasn't your
normal raise and release story there was television involved and there was
disease and catastrophe and love and laugh
and it's just a really kind of a neat story that has real arc and the coolest
thing that happened is all of this heavy-duty involvement with this one
bird has launched me on to my career as a professional J identifier and now
yesterday morning I could identify by their faces eight of the Jays at my
feeder just by looking at them by and this morning in uh up by their faces and
I'm seven and Counting now and the stuff that you learn when you know one bird
from another is incredible just incredible it's the same thing that Jane
Goodall did the first thing she had to do was feed the bird feed the
chimpanzees get them coming in and then figure out who each one was and who was
related to who now I'm never gonna go there with the Jays probably I mean I
might get there I'm looking at a J right now but but it's just it's like Jemima
kicked open this door for me and all this light came in and it's just it's
amazing now we're looking forward to that book in fall of 2019 and I know
that you talked a lot about creative solitude and yet you're still a social
person where can we find and follow you on social media okay I'm honest under my
own name Julie's in Affairs and I'm on Facebook under my own name Julie's
Zickefoose but I have only 100 more friends so I'm getting really fussy you
know they cut you off at 5,000 man you can't do it so I've either got to clean
up people I will put a link to Julie's blog in the comments
below as well as well as Instagram and Facebook but don't expect to get
friended by her on Facebook thanks for joining us today
thank you very much I'm gonna watch Jays now
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