Film Courage: Gordy, when did you decide you were going to be in the film industry? Gordy Hoffman, Founder and Judge of the BlueCat Screenplay Competition: Well I made a
Super 8 film when I was 12 that I starred in and cast the neighborhood
kids shot the whole thing wrote it and showed it in my garage sold Pixie Stix
sold admission so I don't think there was ever a time where I was not thinking
about writing or making films so telling stories in that way so there wasn't
there wasn't like I was doing something else and then I was like oh I need to I
want to pursue this it was like I mean when I was a kid I made a film and told
the story so so it's always been with me that's cool how did you get the word out
about that screen the garage screening I think we probably made look like you
know I dad worked at Xerox so we probably made a flier and then did a
mimeograph muses in the 70s so it was something like that we probably handed
out flyers and we just told everybody I mean the whole garage was filled with
every kid in the neighborhood it was pretty I think we had Laurel and Hardy
like little super eights that we showed in the garage and stuff it was like it
was a whole thing we did pretty well that's cool you didn't have to worry
about getting your your tickets back from the theater no no it was like it
was like I think I'm a I think that was the last prophet you know I made for
quite a while it was I was it was no it was it was a lot of fun but yeah that
was one of my earliest memories that still have that film too so from the
garage screening to the idea that okay I'm going to do this as an adult how did
that take shape I think you know I started working on a play maybe in my
early 20s and then the playwriting went into screenwriting at some point I was
like I want to write I had in my mind to write a screenplay and
I wrote a roto screenplay over 20 years ago about the black market
for organs and it was the start of this or like a first draft I don't think I
even finished the I think I wrote the almost the whole draft and so yeah so
that was my beginning into screenwriting and pursuing it obviously as something
and I wasn't writing it as a hobby I think I was writing speculatively to
eventually make my way into the industry and get paid and you know be a
professional so yeah but it was like I said it from it it was always in me of
that period I think through my teenage years I was acting and then I was acting
a little bit into my 20s so I was always around the storytelling and then like I
said I worked on the plays and then then I wrote a screenplay so that's
interesting what what about the black market of organs intrigued you so much
that you I don't even remember the idea I just remember that I don't even
remember what happened I know I still have a hard copy of it somewhere I wrote
it on one of these old Macs before final draft or any of those software's even
existed and I don't remember what the story was but I just remember it was
like some you know dominatrix type woman in a black leather suit that
was punching people out and and there was some sort of organ there was some
sort of organ I mean I shouldn't go back and read it you know and and finish it
you know like I do often with other things and I've had success doing that
so but yeah so that's that was the path to that right so it wasn't a Disney film
that obviously wasn't it it was yeah I was sort of a you know it was probably a
year - after pulp fiction so there was probably a little bit of that influence
I think I think you know there was that influence in the early 90s of sort of of
of that kind of maybe those kind of that kind of characterization of violence and
sort of kitschy or whatever it was I don't know I leak literally have not
read that and forever so all I remember was the first screenplay I row was about
that what was your first success as a screenwriter
well my first you know obvious success was love Liza
writing my second script I wrote was a
drama I wrote it in 96 the fall of 96 and you know six years later it's lund
dance at one the Sundance the Waldo salt award and it was bought by Sony classics
and released by Sony and yeah that was definitely the first sort of obvious
success I mean I'd had other things like option and things but that was like sort
of the conspicuous success and you know my brother my little brother I showed it
to him Labor Day weekend 1996 and we were both back at my mom's house and
we're both happened to be there and I said oh man I gotta read this I did I
just read I just written the first draft I said I think this is kind of good and
I don't know I think this is kind of cool he read and he was like I want to
do this and and he had not shot Boogie Nights yet he was about ready to shoot
Boogie Nights dot fall and so that fall he shot Boogie Nights with Paul Thomas
Anderson Paul Thomas Anderson read love Liza and actually gave it to Michelle
sadder at Sundance and they considered it for the lab the Sundance lab so that
was very exciting I ended up moving out to LA in February of 97 and then we
started the process of trying to get the movie made and then eventually it was
shot in 2001 Kathy Bates was in it but yeah so that all that stuff felt
successful you know I mean the idea that you know Sundance was interested and I
and you know it's great because I mean you know I just had a short film that I
wrote and directed at Sundance in 2015 and Michelle sadder is still there and
she came up to me and you know we're we still know each other from when I she
called me on the phone and I was in upstate New York
in the fall of 96 and she interviewed me about love Liza and Paul had referred
the project to them and said hey you should check this out and she you know
responded the script it didn't get in to the lab but they were always tracking it
and then obviously was accepted and Paul's movie hard eight was developed it
was originally called Sydney and his first feature was developed through the
Sundance lab - so that was her that was the relationship with the lab that Paul
had so yeah so all that stuff was exciting I think but the most popular
sort of thing that people would say would be those oh you know Sundance one
the ward or whatever and but there was many other things that populated my
professional career that were like oh this is exciting and you know when you
sat down to write love Liza was that in your mind that it was going to have a
trajectory like that and did you expect well yeah okay so I sat down to write
love Liza and I you know I've been driving a cab for three and a half years
in Chicago and I just quit like about a month before cuz I'd
sideswiped a limousine and I was like sort of having this like mental
breakdown or whatever and I was like I was like I just want to write and my
family gave me a little bit of rent money so that summer I just didn't work
and I was like I gotta do something and so I remember August 5th is very clear I
will I woke up and I written like two pages of it and I wrote in like eighteen
days I just sat there and wrote the whole thing and
and I always wrote it with the sense that I would play the guy or not really
like I would play the guy but I wrote I did write it with a sense that what if I
was gonna play the guy and that really helped me as a writer you know it was
like it really got me I don't know I don't really even really done that much
a lot since then but I should probably think about that sometimes because it
was really effective I was like what if I play this guy you know and it was like
it was that Orson Welles II type of thing where it was like it was like I'm
gonna do everything like sort of when I was a kid and I did this so I wrote it
like that you know I didn't write it for my brother I didn't and I showed up to
my brother just cuz I was like I was like this is good man you know and I
knew it was good you know and I gave it to him and he was like I gave him like
10:30 night you know or something and he read it and the next day he was like I
just read the whole thing you know and he totally responded to it he was like I
want to do it and and you know I think it's like historically looked back and
people are like it looks like like I guess it was like two brothers making
this movie together but my brother ended up being Philip Seymour Hoffman and
doing all these other things so I look historically it looks like one thing but
he actually was just an actor who was like I want to do this role you know cuz
it was a cool role it was the hard shit but it was it was you know he liked it
and then we went on this journey together and you know and it was so yeah
so that's I'm not sure what the question was but yeah you know so that was what
it was yeah that just wow did you expect this type of journey and it sounds like
that wasn't well it was like it just it was like no you know you didn't you
don't expect all sorts of things you know and then you just it did I didn't
expect it would take so long you know to make it him I was like there's so many
things you're like oh my gosh you know and you didn't expect it not to do sorts
of things and then you expect you know but I'm very we're very lucky because we
made a film that a lot of people there's plenty of people that it's their
favorite film you know and it's like that's the eye
that's the thing that a writer I tell people it's like the greatest success is
if you can write somebody's favorite film you know like if you if you if they
have like a poster of your film and you might write something that like but if
they're like I you write something that's their favorite film you know
that's it doesn't get any better than that
you know because you're never gonna get everybody to like your film and the
money's gonna always disappear so so if as long as you have somebody come up to
you and I still have people coming up to me and are moved by the film tear up
when they talk about it they go oh my god you roll up Wisie you know and it
means something to them and you're like that's so as fortunate because that is
the kind of thing that has guided me because it's like nothing else matters
like except like giving your audience that experience and if you can get that
to get that to people and have some people think it's a crap or whatever and
some people think it's a nepotism job or you know whatever and it's just like
flimsy or whatever it doesn't matter because it's like it's a very it's a
personal experience films are personal there's plenty of people that I love
Citizen Kane I think it is genius and other people just hate it you know and
it's like there you go you know so were you thinking about the characters while
you were driving before the the limo accident where you you know how because
you saw I came up with the idea for love Liza because I was I was when I was
driving a cab I came up with ideas all the time you know and and I just it was
one of those ideas I just saw a woman coming she was homeless
something would she was by the gas pumps at a gas station and ice you know it's
your taxi driver you're living at the gas station a lot and you or you you're
always there and I saw her and I was like and I just put in my mind at this
idea of like a yuppie which is not an acronym that's used anymore but it's
like a professional white guy in a suit suddenly starting to Huff gas I just saw
this guy's like huffing gas and that was the germ of the idea
yeah and then I had to come up with a motive and then I came up with the
motive and then I started writing it from there and then I created everything
from there and I came up with like a sort of a MacGuffin II hook so to speak
it around you know ten minutes into the movie and it's that that hook sort of
drove the movie and and then I just like I said I just sort of splatted it out
and I I honestly you know I probably could have been rewritten and a bunch
more times you know it just wasn't but it did get rewritten and I did fix a
little bit and as a baby writer then you know so that's where it came from how
much time today in 2018 do you dedicate to writing I write I don't write in a
disciplined way in that in like a timing thing like oh you know a certain hours a
day every single day Monday through Friday or anything I thought I'm one of
those guys that sort of writes in bunches and writes certain times so
there's certain days that I don't write I wrote five pages this morning it
wasn't I did not do that for the benefit of the film courage interview I just I
just was like yesterday I was like I need to like I really want and I I'm on
rewriting this thing and I've been going around and around with it and I started
really a paid like a different totally different approach on this script and so
I was like I need to start really I have two projects that I'm working on right
now both of them to direct and both of them have gone through a lot of
different development and they're both there's people involved and already
producers and stuff so and I want to make one of them next year so I'm just
like I really need to like you know and I found myself bored getting really
frustrated with this one thing and realizing it's like I'm at that point
where I was like I'm really just I don't know if I can figure this out and I was
like he got to hang in there and I did and then I came up with a way in to the
to open it again and so I wrote like a page on Friday
because I was so I had this idea for the opening so I wrote the page and then
today I were like four more pages so I'm like ever on page five then I sent it
over to my staff I send my pages in and they kind of take a look at them and
give me like quick feedback on like if I'm go on the right direction or
something like that and then this afternoon I'm gonna go to
the other project where I'm really outlining it because it's a heist and so
I it's like I've got to do a lot of architecture stuff with it you know it's
like where's this other thing is it very much like a feel like a love Liza type
of movie where there's a protagonist and they're on a mission kind of thing and
it's that kind of a piece so it's very much an extension of like love Liza but
in that structurally a character or kind of thing but I'm gonna be directing it
so you said about getting bored and so when you get that signal that other than
just nothing's happening what's your process do you kind of you cannot
abandon it every every script you know you get bored with something that means
you're actually getting somewhere with a movie people are amateurs primarily
because they can't get through the professional period of hating what
they're writing bored frustrated looking at every page going to hate all these
scenes I'm like I'm like if there's no magic here I don't like I do not enjoy
myself that's not gratifying so you have to suck it up and get through that
period you can't you know I'm bored you're just gonna go right back to where
that point is again so I everything I've ever I mean this is a FEMA there's a
famous quote from Kurosawa about this that I look at almost every single day
the quotes and it's but you know it's you just put it up on your little thing
with this video maybe because people probably ask about what it is but it's
basically he talks about every script falling into despair and he uses the
word despair you know and despair is a strong word but that's exactly what that
is it's like it's like I can't figure this out I don't know how to figure
and I just wanna I really want to start with this because this other thing I
know what to do with it I'm gonna start it and it's gonna be okay
not knowing that or not remembering that everything you write you come to that
place of despair and the art the artist the the writer the director the actor
whatever has to walk through that period of like that sort of desert period of
the creative process or they're not going to you know cuz then something
will click and that's what happened is I hung in there with this one thing where
I was recently gone and then I came up with an image and I had some input from
somebody like just the life experience and I had some incident I sort of was
like what if I move it and I started over there and I do that no sudden I had
a I had an idea and then I was sudden I was like okay this is how it is and I
had oh I cracked my problem and suddenly I was like okay I'm back in the saddle I
got this thing going now I can incorporate the other things I've been
working on that I still like but I got through that period of like of just
discouragement so is that something that when you know your quote in boredom that
that you have a ritual for because I'm sure it's not a ritual it's just the
ritual is staying patient you know people don't have any patience you know
and they don't have you know corporate structures I think don't allow for
patients when they're making studio pictures and stuff it doesn't you know
it's like when they announce a release date and the scripts not done well
that's counterintuitive actually you know because you're not that's like okay
I'm gonna show you this but I haven't written it yet
that creates dysfunction and so that's why I think a lot of bets are off and
that's why you have projects not really work out you go to a movie going to the
theater and you're like what just happen there and it's very difficult so because
it really eliminates the principle of patience because you're not gonna be
like well let's pump the brakes III read this thing needs about six more
months I got to fit this out can we move this release date
back for a year and a half you know and tell the disney stockholders that you
know the Star Wars movies not gonna come out for four years because we want to
make sure that the script is good you know and that's not gonna that's not
gonna work so and that's okay and it doesn't mean that you can I mean the
guys are all Casablanca I mean you know you can write under duress and and and
it can be successful having deadlines in structure is fine I mean it's like but
overall when you are stuck having patience and being like do not give up
do not relent hang in there and don't like change gears just hang in there and
I did I didn't a couple weeks it was maybe a little bit of time but I was
kind of going and then all of a sudden but I but I kept telling myself no no no
just keep hanging in there and like what can you do here you're not gonna move
off this is you have to finish there's nothing palatable about working
on this script at all it's just there's nothing there you want to start working
on something else you have a number of ideas they you're so much sexier
attractive you want to jump into but it's like you can't let go of this you
have to stay hang in there so I always just so whatever the process
is doesn't matter it's just exhibiting patience and realizing it's like if you
hang in there the path is gonna open up according to Kurosawa the path will open
up and then you'll and then you'll be like oh and then the light bulb will go
off in it and that's what's happened with everything really Apocalypse Now
you don't want it to become your what is it heart of darkness or did you see the
documentary yeah yeah you know it's really good by the best but that's also
pardon but I think that I mean absolutely I think I mean if anything
you know what Coppola was doing with Apocalypse Now is having patience and
hanging in there because it would have there were a lot of places you want to
give up but he you have to fight you know you have to fight through knowing
and also maintaining like no I have to tell the truth I want to be original I
want to be compelling I want to make a message of choices I'm not going to like
because you know to get through the darkness you you're bored or you're
stuck because you're not giving up and you're not like compromising you know
you're not saying well no let's just shoot it anyways it's good enough it's
already done who cares if you haven't figured out the third act let's just do
it it's it's good enough it doesn't have to be perfect you know I had a filmmaker
say to me wants Gordie it doesn't have to be perfect
and it's like you're right it's never going to be perfect but you will but
what it's implying it's like a little bit of like disregard of like who cares
if you know something is core is kind of crap or it does not believable it's not
logical you know or it's not vulnerable or doesn't it's not clear or whatever
all the problems if you're aware of problems but you're like well who cares
you know then you're not going to make somebody's favorite movie that way right
so
when did you begin blucat screenplay competition
I started blucat in 1998 so it's 20 years ago it's over 20 years ago and I
started the competition I thought oh this could be a good side business or I
don't know what motives were sort of like you know like oh this could be this
could work and it was a long time ago it was before everything really was before
MySpace it was it was a long time ago and every
script was sent in hard copies and people sent in personal checks there was
no he's a long time ago and by yeah that's how it started and it started off
very small for the first four or five years I got like 200 300 entries you
know we only accepted features you know so so why did you start it I probably
started it to make money you know that was probably honestly that was probably
there that was that was the reason it was like oh this this is this could be
profitable and I and I'm a writer and I just saw was there not an
entrepreneurial type of impulse probably and yeah and it started and it was like
that is not a good reason to start a screenplay contest no it's like making
money is not like it's never it's turned out to be like that if you want to make
money do something else but it ended up being like immediately very gratifying
and it's made me it's I mean I cannot repay what blue cat has done for me as a
writer I love to teach it's made me a better writer and maybe a better
storyteller and I love helping people I love helping writers I love helping
people but I love helping screenwriters and immediately when I gave that first
check to the winner and I and I met them and took them out to dinner and it was
amazing you know and so it's still you know we just had a reading
of two of our winners that are local we have them over we had actors we read the
short and the pilot that all their friends come and we did reading we had a
pizza and I gave them the checks with in front of their friends and you know I
mean it's to be able to support writers you know it's ended up so you know
sometimes you start something out you're like oh maybe this would be good you
know good business or something that would be cool to start off and you know
there's maybe there's a niche a market niche for this or something but like
anything else I'm like you start something off and it ends up becoming
something else and you're like I didn't expect this you know and and now I've
you know blue cats gone through a lot of iterations and growth patterns and
things over the years but I really fight for it you know and I really love it and
and there's been times where I probably had an opportunity to let it go but I
just thought people love this and and it's brought so much given so much to me
and it's given my life so much meaning that I don't really want to know what my
life's gonna be like if I'm not doing blue cat and somebody else does look at
I walk away so I still get so much out of it so it's really great it's
interesting trajectory to things when you start it for one reason and then it
like goes through all these sort of evolutions or whatever and and I'm sure
there's times with everything it's stressful but then you kind of imagine
like what would I do waking up and I'm not thinking about it well it's it's
it's it's uh we've been really good at it like that's the thing I mean the
bottom line is there's not too many things that I'm that we're good at like
I'm me specifically I'm not like an expert in a lot of things but I've been
very very good at taking people who are finalists and winners and they tend to
like go on and we just were talking today the Castle Rock episode directed
by oh no Ana Louie I'm a poor and she was our winner ten years ago and she's a
member of the Academy now and there's you know one of our finalists wrote
pappi another finalist wrote Nutcracker that's
coming out the end of the year another one of our winners wrote another script
now I forgot the name of the movie if it's coming out in at the end of this
year of amazing Williams from Game of Thrones is starring in it that's
gratifying you know it's like I have an ability to recognize like this is
special writer when they're submitting a screenplay contest and we give them a
little love we give them a little money we give them a little recognition and we
say keep going and and our ability to recognize those people and say and give
them a little encouragement and then people are able to look and say like hey
blue cat has an eye the industry definitely recognizes now that like when
we said we announced our stuff they tend to they go send us the logline send us
the scripts we get the script requests because they know they all understand
that we have had a track record over the years of identifying people when they're
amateurs that eventually become go on staff make movies write specs whatever
it might be so and that continues so I think that's another thing that keeps
has always kept me close to blue cat and wants it to continue to grow and develop
and become bigger and because of our track record and realizing that if I
gave that away that's not easily transferable you can't just be like oh
somebody else just pick clearly whatever we're doing with our readers and how our
process and my process and my eye and my experience as a writer myself and
developing things in myself all of that creates an environment where blue cat
does find people you know sales pitch or not you know you can take it for
whatever it is the fact is is that that's what happens with blue cat that's
why people are attracted to it people are ready to submit to any competition
they shouldn't enter and if you're never ready to submit to blue god you don't
have to enter blue cat but I think that's why personally for me why I
continue to honor the organization and continue to support it and want it
to keep stay healthy because of the impact it's had on people and because it
on a personal level it provides me you know substantial meaning so you know and
purpose you know it's like you know I feel grateful that I'm able to able that
blue cat exist for people and that people enjoy submitting to us getting
notes and all that stuff that mechanism and me not wanting I don't I didn't like
I said there's not been if there's not been I maybe there's been a couple forks
in the road where okay like if you're making you know if if you're a
professional writer and you want to make films and you're working on your films
do you have room in space for this you know to continue to sort of manifest
blue cat or whatever and run it or manage it or whatever and the answer is
like you know I got a dance with what brought me I mean the fact is is that
the process of working with writers is obviously benefited me personally like I
said the last thing it's an immuno it's not on a material level it's it's really
overall it's my ability to be able to express myself a twelve-year-old kid
that made that short film it still supports that that kid you know as you
know just right now talking to you about about screenwriting you know this is
this is this this goes back into my own work and my ability to express myself so
from what you've seen with the screenplay competition what would you
say most new writers baby writers have trouble with poor opening or a weak
ending well I think I think writers in general struggle with the endings I
think that that's why I think there's probably a lot of television shows that
have been developed because or pilots because it's like well I don't know
where this is going so let's just write a television show you know let me just
write a pilot and then you know I'll figure out the ending later because it's
the ending is probably the hardest thing it's probably the most elusive thing for
even films that have won Best Picture to not be able to wrap things up and in
in a truly classic way with some sort of magical imaginative powerful cathartic
surprising revelatory ending it I think that in general endings are always
tougher so I imagine probably people starting off I think they're able to get
started more easily than to finish something absolutely for yourself
personally which of the two did you think in the beginning was one of your
traits that you had oh I think that again I think sometimes I have the
ending and I know what the ending is or I have an idea of what the ending is and
I don't really know other things and then other times I don't know what the
ending is and I struggle with like this is gonna end and then you're so trying
to solve that how are you're gonna end but so it goes project and project for
me and I don't think it's an automatic like I can never have an ending I always
like with love wise I always had an idea what the ending was you know and but
with the you know I this short that I made that went to Sundance and it called
dog Bowl I didn't know where it was calling you know and the script that I'm
the two projects that I'm working on right now that I want to direct it's
like one or the other is gonna probably happen in 2019 one has an ending the
other one doesn't so I'm sort of so be either one a minute just so there's no
set pattern to that it's just sometimes you have a vision and you go oh there's
an ending that's awesome and then you know and then other ones it's like you
don't really know like what the what the kind of clicker at the end is so I have
not found that people writer to writer people are good at one thing versus the
other I have found I have found that writers tend to struggle with endings I
mean it's obvious you watch movies you know the great first act great second
act sort of and then what's in where did this go in the third
you know and so you have definitely you definitely have some problems with that
so the ending is very difficult and I think that writers need to embrace that
it's good to just you know just be like it's really hard and respect that
endings are difficult and and again that's that's that humility to hang in
there and be like okay it's difficult but I'm not gonna settle for less and
I'm gonna hang in there until I have a good ending I'm not gonna just sign off
because this is too uncomfortable because I don't know how to solve this
and I want this to be over and I'm sick of this script so I'm just gonna use
this ending that's not how you move forward that's not how you move and
that's not going to be the audience is going to know what's happened I mean we
know I mean there's countless movies that have come out best pictures that
don't know how to end a movie and you clearly understand as a writer for me
and as somebody who's judged the screenplay composition for 20 years has
taught on the university level blah blah blah blahs advise people on screen or
anything I can look at a movie that just won Best Picture and be like they didn't
have the ending they never they did not they did not have an ending you know and
I'm not gonna like I don't want to throw anybody hurt the bus so don't ask me but
like shape of water which just one I don't know when somebody's watching this
video but but it had an ending didn't it it had sort of a revelatory ending I
don't I did not expect the ending maybe some people guess the ending maybe but
there was an ending and it was sort of a surprise and it and it brought things to
a close it was an actual proper ending to a movie that was actually kind of
ascendant and and nice you know but that often doesn't happen it's very difficult
why screenwriting vs. novel writing like I'm thinking when you talked about
getting bored or something it reminds me of a book I was reading about David
Foster Wallace and how he did not like the screenplay format but he loved novel
writing so why choosing one over the other
well why or it's just I don't know it just said you did it just happened now
I think it's because I wrote theatrically you know as a young person
and then going forward it went into screenwriting because I love movies and
stuff and I always loved I was maybe I was because I was an actor for a while
never thought about writing a book ever you know and I understand that like
writing a novel you can just you know like I guess you can just write anything
you want it's a very different form of writing screenwriting is uh very
difficult so I imagine that somebody is a novelist would feel a little
challenged by that and would rather write a novel where you can just explain
every thought and feeling of every single person and explain everything but
a screen screenwriter has to describe only what a camera can shoot and somehow
that's going to be used as a document with a bunch of other collaborators to
create a motion picture but so yeah but there's never been I've never had an
pulls as a to write a novel and and but I can understand why and there's not a
lot of transfer I mean you know Stephen King doesn't write screenplays and not
because he can't he probably has no interest I don't know what he wants to
do but but there's not always it's not like oh you can write a novel you know
or I like because I've been writing screen you know I'm a screenwriter and
I've been writing screenplays for 20 you know more than 20 years I could sit down
and write a novel or a short story or whatever it's not easy you know it's not
easy to just even sit down and write a play if you're a screenwriter you know
it's very different all these things are very different what would you say is the
most common overused way to end a script
what would be what would that be what would be the common way to end a script
I don't think there's a real common way I think I think the I think the problems
the endings that are problematic and maybe a better question I think usually
is when you when a character does something against their own motives the
motives that you've just defined for them earlier in the movie that go
against their character so they do something like that
that a choice at the end that makes it like wait a minute
that just happened like you don't expect them to do something like that
or you know some something where there is some sort of fantastic ending that
doesn't mean anything something that's implausible that's something that is
unlikely again character doing something unreasonable or circumstances I mean you
can look at get out get out was a masterpiece and the only thing that was
probably problematic for some people and this is a massive spoiler alert so if
you have not seen get out stop watching this movie and if you're watching this
video you should have already watched it get out so we want to go and watch get
out and you can come back and watch this movie so there's your spoiler alert but
the end of get out when his friend shows up who's the security guard it seems
like something that was unreasonable and not logical and I think he probably the
filmmaker probably recognized that but he had built up so much goodwill with us
that I was willing to accept that a TSA agent he was a TSA agent was able to
somehow find him and I and I suspended my disbelief but that is a perfect
example of like a film that is a masterpiece but even how to end it and I
believe his original ending was something much darker and and they
decided not to do that and so he came up with something else that was probably he
probably didn't choose that original ending because of a logic issue because
he had so much control over logic in that picture
but at the end he did choose something where he had this
spend our disbelief a little bit but when you're the good wills been built up
by the writers so much and the filmmaker the storyteller
then we see we can sort of forgive it and we did sort of forgive it some
people maybe not but I I did I said I said you know maybe that's a little but
it is in the realm of possibility that the TSA guy could somehow track him and
find him and I could let that go but so I think the common problems I'll often
involve logic and characters doing something motives and decisions that are
out of character and within the character wait what would they do that
why would they do that why would they make the decision and to get out of the
movie so yeah tropes of a getting screenwriter
should avoid that a more seasoned screenwriter can navigate Wow that's an
interesting question these are like very bizarre quite I mean it's just like okay
I don't think that I don't think there are tropes that a seasoned screenwriter
are able to navigate that sounds like that sounds like that's like a red flag
like I'm like I'm like I don't want to do that mommy I don't want to do tropes
that are not supposed to do what I'm a baby writer it's like it's like we need
to tell honest stuff it needs to be original it needs to be plausible needs
to be emotionally available it always needs to be like that you know that
needs to happen on page 10 it happened it needs to happen to the first 10 pages
it needs to happen between page 62 and 72 I mean it's all over the script and
we can't ever not traffic in that currency you know it's just like we
don't want to we don't want to ever be like well later you can screw around and
trick people and I mean obviously there's things that happen where you be
you get better control but I can't I just can't it just that intuitively
doesn't feel like that a seasoned writers ever going to be able to cheat
an audience in a more effective way and they're gonna learn tricks or something
that that you know I mean there's things with timelines and cheating time
and you know tricking an audience in terms of moving like like letting the
audience sort of knowing the audience like fooling around with a calendar and
being like well all this is happening and it feels like it's happening over a
course of eight years but it feels like it's also gonna be happening in over a
year and there's things that are sophisticated that happened and I think
that's like saying well and it's not a trope though I mean that's a structure
that's just like when I started off writing you know 25 years ago writing a
play having three people having a conversation was confusing to me it was
like okay who's talking to who like four people talking it was difficult and to
hear that conversation in my mind let alone have a 150 page script which I
just wrote on contract to with four different arcs happening at three
different locations all kind of coming to like it was so sophisticated that I
never it was like way out there that for something I never would have been able
to do something like that even probably fifteen year ten years ago it was too
difficult I would I still look at it ago how did you do this like it's like it's
so sophisticated in terms of its structure keeping all the balls in the
air keeping everything believable and clear and and and not forgetting anybody
and not crowding your cast all those things so now I don't know about that
question that's a tricky question that I don't know I hope somebody else can
figure that out because I don't think that there's tropes that there's other
things there probably are things that some other teacher will be able to
answer but I I think that I don't want to ever promise a new writer that oh
you'll be able to use tropes which are suggests Oh something that's overused
you'll be able to know you'll be able to use those later when you get more
seasoned I was like I don't want you to ever do that I want you to always listen
to your voice right when you believe in you know right what you really want to
write and that's what we want to give our
audiences and that's what we want to think about it as our audiences and not
like you know what we're gonna be able to get away with later when we know
everything or something you know so dangerous corty we had a question come
in earlier from Twitter it's a lady named XE and she's from Australia I
believe and she says I would love to see interviews or discussions on developing
secondary characters so any thoughts on developing secondary characters well
your calf size is always a concern because you have to give each character
enough real estate in your script to create enough moments emotional moments
that the audience can relate to and identify and connect with and secondary
primary supporting if you choose to have a character that you're gonna develop
you can arc them out in the same way it's like what is the beginning middle
and end of this journey of this character
I wouldn't get too concerned with theme or how they relate or whatever but if
you're trying to develop any character you want to be like well what is there
you know do you have enough scenes where the audience can relate and are they
going on an emotional journey an interior journey an external journey
whatever the combination of both but it's it's the same you build it the same
way as any of your characters you you want to create enough moments where the
audience can see themselves so it's plausible emotional high-stakes stuff
where the audience can see themselves reflected and they identify and they
sympathize so it's the same things that's how I look at everything I don't
get caught up in in like formulas as to where things are supposed to happen in
stories I think it's mostly you want to focus on you know you and I don't think
there's a lot talked about with character so it's a very good question
but mostly it's it's the screenplay only has so long you only
have to two and a half hours to go right or something like that hour-and-a-half
and you want to have as many moments because a relationship is defined by the
volume of moments that we have with the person if you have coffee with somebody
once a year then if they pass away you have you have one kind of emotional
response you have coffee with somebody every day out of the whole year
that's gonna hit you more so in a script if we see that secondary character or
any character and we're able to see them different contexts go through different
things and there's a greater volume of access to them and different in
different in different days different times different locations doing
different things and bouncing through this plot that's that's why cast sizes
are small that's why Casablanca there's three basically it's a story about three
people that's why you know Harry Potter's eight movies basically around
three people really rub one guy there's three people I mean there's other
characters but but we we are not asked to connect with a bunch you know you
know when you have something longer like Game of Thrones you're able to connect
with more people because we have more there's more real estate but that's only
because there's more real estate and that's how we find our way in to the
main characters but still there's only there are a few there that garner most
of our attention if you had someone sitting in this room out here this
beautiful Lobby who had never written a screenplay and you were gonna give them
a five-minute screenplay lesson it five minutes how would you start it what
would it be well I would just tell them I would say I'd asked him if they had an
idea and then I would just say pull out your laptop or your notebook with your
pen and start writing it I wouldn't I wouldn't even tell them about format I
would just be like described a movie everybody knows what a movie is
everybody knows everybody's seen it they're like our visual vocabulary is so
high especially now 2018-2019 I mean you know anybody can describe it
the problem is we still when we start educating people we're like read six
books six books take this course do this stuff watch this video you know it gets
like but not this video yeah yeah no I mean you can watch this video but that's
what I would do if somebody was like I want to write a movie and I don't know
anything about it I'd be like what do you want to write about like what's your
idea and they probably have the idea they're not like well I don't know what
the idea is though they're gonna be like well actually I want to write off this
guy who wants to do this thing and I'd be like okay start describing it just
describe it and then I might say something like Trudeau don't talk of
don't describe their thoughts and don't describe their feelings any character
don't describe the insides just describe what you would see on a movie screen you
know just like and you know exterior house day man walks across and gets in
the car drives away you know do not care about doing anything wrong just spill
your guts just tell us the movie write down the whole movie we'll figure all
that other stuff later you can figure out where things are supposed to be
later you can figure out everything I mean you know there's so many stories
about that where they didn't know what they were doing you know they wrote
bridesmaids that way they didn't know why they brought they bought
screenwriting for dummies or something like that right so it's like that fresh
voice it's like ah it breaks my heart thinking about all the people that have
that think they have because we've created this industry where it's all
coded and they got to go take oh you got to learn you have to learn structure you
have to learn this you've got to learn all these things you gotta know what a
screenplay is man you got to know what the rules are before you break them
that's all crap to sell books and all sorts of stuff it doesn't it's it we God
please bring them in that don't know anything about movies and maybe we'll
have better movies I mean that's the problem it's like it's like all this
other stuff it's like bringing that person it's just like I have as a
teacher I had people come in with formatting that's just like doesn't know
they don't know what they don't have access to final trap I don't know what
they're writing and it's the most authentic slice of life funny succinct
observational genius stuff and they don't and if the reason why it exists is
because they haven't learned anything about screenwriting yet and then once
you start teaching them then all of a sudden they they don't know what they're
doing then they don't then they lose their emotional connection they lose
that story four-year-olds know how to tell a story they know how to tell a
story ask a five-year-old what happened today at school well we went in
beginning middle and end the inciting incident you can tape it you can go
exciting that's it so you guys should film curse do should interview a friggin
ten-year-old and then put the little flags in and be like wow they know all
the structure already so I don't have to go to so-and-so person's course or I
don't have to take Gordy's class or anything you know you don't have to
spend any money and keep your voice that's the most important thing I was at
it's like don't lose your voice don't lose your instincts your childlike
instincts for telling stories it's like that's what guides us and I always go
back to that I'm like I don't care the thing I just wrote for somebody that
we're all likelihood people are watching this video we'll see I don't know what
the structure is I don't know where the act brakes are at it and it's over a
hundred and fifty pages okay it was a writer I mean and it's probably gonna be
seen by people watching this video directed by a very very good top
director this is going to happen and I have no idea what the structure of that
is I literally just took my ideas plotted out the thing now am i following
the rules of character and emotional engagement to like develop and
everything things you can reflect back on and be like how do I make this better
but when you're telling me when somebody's like what's the five minute
version of like somebody wants to write a movie that's they
watch this video what I just said so you've just given us five minutes and 18
seconds of advice to someone that's never written a screenplay if you took
that same advice let's say it's 1995 you're in your cab you're listening to
like Alanis Morissette I don't know it's Chicago you see the woman at the gas
station the pump which has sparked this idea you didn't even know it was gonna
be a thing yet if somebody had been sort of this Jiminy Cricket in your ear
squeezing in as well you've got to know this structure and you need to read this
book do you think you would have abandoned the idea um I don't know you
know that's sort of a sad thing to think about but I think that there's a lot of
people that get discouraged today because they do feel like they're doing
something wrong and there is that element out there on the message boards
on podcasts very popular podcasts that talk about black and white
define things in black and white and it's dangerous it's less like it's like
you know people have tried to figure out where this industry is going and where
storytelling is going in our culture all the time
since I've been working to write screenplays or whatever and I've seen
all the different iterations of like well you're not able to write shouldn't
write anything period you shouldn't write anything about the industry you
shouldn't do this you shouldn't do that and all of it's been blown up you
shouldn't write anything I mean you know like an online bookseller an online
bookstore it wins like Oscars now you know it's like like no don't tell me
what anything black and white is anymore so it's dangerous and so we we can talk
about like the rules of why people care about movies and like the the sort of
the laws of emotion and and and and I think no one's gonna really get freaked
I think that's sort of organic stuff but when I started off I read Michael
Hague's book and but his book and you know I didn't even remember he I don't
think he talked a lot about formulas or be cheat so you might have talked about
the only thing I remember him talk the only thing I remember from Michaels book
was encouragement like he just empower he gave me hope he
gave me and he definitely encouraged me and so that's what I always responded to
and I responded he seemed to have a sad so it's like that people it was rare for
something good to be written and buddy but he did find it possible and there
were things that he he was very much it was a hopeful book so I think that's
the only thing I got I think that was the only screenwriting book that I ever
read a lot from I don't know if I read the whole thing through but I would
often refer to it but then when I started I just was like you know I'd
literally just I was like okay and I knew something something about page 30
and page 60 or whatever and I sort of tried to follow that but and I didn't
find it difficult to remember that something was supposed to happen or
something like that but I was very much on my own and I wrote whatever you know
so but I that's why I think that we you know it's very important for people to
remember you don't have to learn the rules to break them you can just ignore
them if you feel like you're being expressive and something it's cool that
you're writing something cool and then you start showing it to other people and
other people think it's cool then that's the only thing we care about because we
would not have any we would not have any Fellini we would not have horse and
wells we probably would not have Kurosawa
you know eventually people have to stop listening to what people are suggesting
and nowadays you know people being told they can't direct you know women people
of color diverse you know voices that are like have been scourged whatever and
all those people I just like be like get out in my face I'm gonna I want to say
what I want to say and that's the only way we move forward you know with this
art form is when people just say I don't care what I'm supposed to be doing or
who's supposed to be directing or who's supposed to be writing you know the only
time we move forward when we when people are like well let's follow and Bob page
23 this is supposed to happen that's when everyone wants to blow their brains
out it's like I want something new and that's why things like streaming and
like episodic television did grow probably in response to formulate a
feature writing it's probably one of the reasons
because people were like cocky and I watched something else it doesn't feel
like everything else and it's because of formula and because people were
following what they were supposed to be doing and it's like not good but some
people have sort of a punk-rock ethos and that's in them and they've been that
way all their lives and others are the one in the front seat of the class
they're gonna raise their hand and be the teacher's pet and so some people
never want to rock the boat or as others are fine having people be totally pissed
off at them it's not about rocking the boat it's just realizing that
emotionally that audiences don't care about when what page number a scene is
on all the audiences are responding to is emotional veracity if they want to be
sucked in they want to feel a part of the universe people go into with have
you ever thought about this people walk into a theater to watch other people on
a screen act out stuff from life and they just watch it like why are they
watching it it's the weirdest thing when you go into a play in a theater people
are watching people argue on us an imaginary stage we're gonna watch people
act out life it doesn't make any it's like bizarre but the reason why people
are doing it is because it gets them meaning for their struggles they go I've
done that that's me I fought cancer nice you know what you know
something happened to me I won the state championship I want to be able to win
the state championship I want to be able to come from nowhere
I want to believe I want to fall in love I want to survive the loss of a loved
one this can happen I saw a story about
someone I mean this is why it gives us context so that we're not walking around
going why am i doing all this you see them moving you're like other people
have been dumped other people have been fired other people have been
discriminated against other people there's been injustice I suffered
injustice so are they I can live I'm gonna fight
that's why people go to movies so that's that's the only thing
anyone he cares about they don't care if you know the point of no-return happens
on page 63 or some crap oh so if you're writing from that place so that's that
punk rock that's just that's just stories
that's storytelling that's conservative storytelling liberal you know yeah it's
not gonna be political but I'm just saying and that's anybody that's any
ethos that is the ethos so if you're going to get in the business of the
woman you know the young lady in the front row who's like the person who
gives the Apple to the teacher she better get it's the it this is the this
is the business of emotion you know it's the business of dealing of human
identification was with authentic stories and that's heavy lifting that
requires like sharing of your life experience it is demanding it's just
this is you know a surgeon is it's emotionally demanding to be a nurse it's
emotionally demanding to be a trashman because you're like looking at people's
trash like oh my god they threw out this photo album I mean it's like everybody's
got to deal with something in there like you know this is the thing and that's
like this is the business this is that business so so you can you know you
can't get around that and when people try and get around that then the great
actor becomes the good actor and the great screenplay becomes an okay movie
but when you go there and you sell the whole thing and you don't shy away then
you're Kurosawa then you're you know then you're Eugene O'Neill then you're
writing something you know then you're doing 12 years of slave then you're
fearless then you're telling that you know you're doing the thing that people
go you know that's awesome black clansmen just like you know
amazing honest movie you know about the truth you know it's a great movie and
it's it's about the truth and it's like and it's emotional it's disturbing but
it's like but that's but that's where it's Shakespeare you know that's it it's
never changed that's not new you know that's not like avant-garde or anything
it's just that's just south and audiences are still responding to a
because we're human beings and we still are responding to a good story Gordy we
have a quote here from your site and it says the first thing you should know is
blue cat is very hard to win our readers are incredibly tough on our submissions
because I've hand-picked them and my standards are very high we work very
hard and writers who work as hard as we do stand a chance in the competition so
can you talk about that process well that's all true I mean it's very
difficult to win a competition I don't think I've ever won a competition it's
very difficult obviously most of the writers that place in our competition
they work very hard on their scripts you can't all I mean that's one of the
things I recognize about submissions that do place it's like they've
obviously spent a lot of time rewriting developing and polishing and working on
their scripts and making them making them function so there's a lot of work
that goes into it in terms of the readers yeah we are very very careful we
have every reader that I hire every reader and I think we've built our
reputation over the years of being very strict we're actually just now going
through the list again making sure reviewing the work from that last year
we now at anybody that's not up to our standards of what we want the very best
coverage their very best feedback because we send feedback to everybody so
they read everything and we want to make sure that it's up to that standard so
I'm very tough of our readers on who we hire I think we pay our readers
competitively with the two very top competitions easily I think we're right
up there so we do attract I think the the best in terms of a reader that's
available for a script competition so I pick the readers and and after 20 years
of judging look at my standards have you know obviously elevated and my
ability to assess something gets a little bit stricter and more difficult
so yeah so you're going to begins very very tough readers that are very
sophisticated have a good voice themselves and know what they're talking
about and are aligned with my sense of
analysis and judgment and then then your script is going to come to me and I'm
gonna start looking at your writing from that vantage point so yeah that's I
don't think it's like it is a very well curated process you know it's not we
don't take the scripts and send them off to a development company and who's
promised to read them and then they send back some of the ones that they like but
we have no evidences if they've read them you know we don't do anything like
there's a lot of extra work for blue cat but our entrance and our writers
appreciate the a transparent character of blue cat that you know your script
has been read completely all the way through the reader is someone that's
giving you a fair shake and and that's something that doesn't necessarily
always happen with every you know with all submissions even in the top
competitions without naming any names you know our I don't really I'm fine
with whatever anybody else is doing but for me as a writer I want to know if
somebody read my script and that's where this came from with blue cat we started
it 20 years ago giving feedback to everybody because I wanted when people
enter blue cat they know that their script has been read so it's been
adjudicated and do we still have problems with readers or somebody
complains or whatever very very rare now and it's usually when somebody just
doesn't like the fact that they don't like the feedback and it's not really
because of some issue and if there's sometimes there's a rare time where
there is an issue with the reader maybe the reader has gotten sloppy
it's got maybe two negative maybe a little bit too discouraging which isn't
really our style we shoot straight we we don't sugarcoat and we don't get
all mean you know because that is just nobody responds to that so so yeah so
that's a good you know I think that's a fair assessment of like why blue cat is
hard to we're not but I think at any any competition that receives several
thousand submissions is going to be difficult to come out on top so so
several thousand submissions and this is per year do you have it several times a
year no we were annual so we are always in the fall and and so it ranges over
the years we went through a little bit of a transition about two years ago and
but yeah we get we get several a few thousand features it's changed we've
we've gone over 4,000 a couple years so it's like but now we accept pilots and
we accept half our pilots our pilots and shorts so our feature number has changed
because now somebody has a pilot they're like well I really want to send my pilot
in this year they're not forced to send in their features our feature number
changes as we get other categories so they as the other categories grow and so
how long is the feedback a few paragraph about 600 words okay 500 600 words so
it's not short I mean it's it's a pretty decent length for feedback that is
included in the entry fee so there's not it's not an add-on you know it doesn't
it's it's part of the entry fee and yeah so it's not yeah it's it's it's it's
definitely the blue cat tradition of doing that I think that we it's just
part of entry fee and it's I think a substantial feedback and people like the
feedback that's why we're still around because we're not affiliated with a
large like the Motion Picture Academy Nichols is affiliated with a big you
know we're not affiliated with a standalone Film Festival or you know
like Sundance or whatever I mean we're just blue cat
the reason we sort of stand with those top people I think is our our track
record and but primarily because people get feedback people get feedback and so
developing writers can get feedback a lot of people have never received
feedback at all and so it's they really like entering blucat for that feature
and what's the timeframe for the feedback well come back pretty comes
back pretty quickly I mean for example we have an early deadline that allows
people to enter by the 30th of this month I mean this is gonna probably be
an old video it's soon but it's like we usually have an early deadline where
people can enter and then they get their feedback back within like two or three
weeks and then they're able to revise their script and enter it by the final
deadline so a lot of people like to do that they take in the feedback and then
they enter it again and and then they can pick to have a new reader or the
same reader and that's that's so that's what we've been doing that for several
years too so people like like the sort of developmental process of entering
blucat and but that's grown over many many years of us trying different things
and trying to give people notes and when to give how many people how many times
can somebody resubmit and you know things like that we've had to change and
correct but at the feed that comes pretty fast relatively to within the
course level I mean even towards the end if you enter by the final deadline it
usually comes back within a month six weeks tops yeah depending on how many
submissions we receive what would you say is a percentage of writers that it
will actually take those notes to heart and resubmit I think I think well
they're resubmissions it's pretty good I mean it's it's definitely a good chunk
of people maybe I should know that but it's like thirty percent I mean a hat
it's not half but a lot of people because a lot of people do well they
might get notes that they're like oh they really liked it I'm just gonna want
to see how my script does in the competition or people are like I don't
want to do this or they don't have the money to resubmit it you know
unfortunately or whatever you know there's a lot of reasons why they might
not but I think I think it we've gotten our
community chance to say yes we like the resubmission process it's not something
people are like no no no don't do this we don't like this they actually want it
so we've we've we've toyed with not having it and people really really like
it so we've we continue to do it Courtney what are some common mistakes
that are just simple not so much the content of the screenplay but things
that people should be aware of when submitting that they maybe don't submit
until you're ready you know it's like don't submit if you're not ready and I a
lot of people want to be ready like we've you know we've talked about being
impatient wanting to fight to end the fight for a great movie to end and
they're like oh I'm gonna just submit it and then they're bummed out that the
feedback comes back and they're like oh they didn't respond you know and it's
like work hard on your script if you're not ready to submit to blucat if you
don't think it's just your best work don't submit it don't submit it just
wait three months and submit to Nichols submit to Austin to submit to Sundance
submit to something now submit to the local state regional contest that's six
months from now when your script is really good and you're ready to do it
and it's like beautiful and you're really excited about it but if you're
not ready don't submit that's the thing is people send in stuff where they're
not intimate with their material they don't know they they don't even know you
can tell that they haven't gone back through it that they haven't reread it
that it's overwritten it's too long and they're and they're sort of like well
I'm done you look at it it's like and then they get you know then they have a
responsible we're like yeah we're not connected to it because it's confusing
or it's not clear or whatever and that's the thing that I think most people again
you're in a rush to finish and so you want it you want the you want the
adrenaline if I've just entered a competition I'm making progress you know
it's sort of like and it's better to just stay with the script and be patient
and make sure that you know your script be intimate with your script I mean the
scripts that always come out on with blue cat now after all these years
we got more a lot more submissions there are always scripts that are really tight
as a drum and they're people that clearly do they
have worked really hard sometimes people write a draft and they proofread it and
they send it in and it's like and it does really well and they're like that
was my second draft or whatever but um generally people you can tell people
have like worked really hard and they know everything in their script like the
back of their hand and I think that's the biggest thing that I would encourage
people to to make sure that you know your beat you should know your script
really well and if you know your script very well then you know it either has
problems or a doesn't and if you know it really well then you know if it does
have problems and you shouldn't be submitted into a competition unless
you're just like oh I just want blue cat's feedback or whatever and a lot of
people just do that and they're like I just want to get some notes now you know
would you say when you were writing love Liza were you obsessed with it and that
you were so in that world and trying to you saw the one woman at the gate it
meant a lot to you maybe because you weren't working or whatever and so you
just focused everything do you want that from who that same obsession and sort of
like this is everything right here on this piece of paper well yeah I mean I
think I just well I think most people that are that have written something
special that does really well they love it it's I mean the thing about
screenwriting and going back to like just my mission with blue cat and my my
the place in blue cat in my life in the meaning is is that people you know
everybody we deal with is doing what they want to do like it's their dream
it's their it's their passion it's it's really important to them so I don't
think people are like well I'm doing this screenwriting thing but I really
really like being a you know the stockbroker that's what I really like
doing but I'm just working on screenplays because I don't know you
know like I'm just doing it cuz I gotta do it my mom wanted me to do it but I
really want to sell real estate you know it's like it's not like
okay so everybody we deal with is is like it's important to them so everybody
that I talk to everybody that everybody's like invested so there's not
really an issue of like obsession you know investment priority with
anybody who's entering blucat everybody's entering blue cat is
thrilled and excited they're not like oh I won but I really really wanted to like
you know open that paint store and you know I didn't that didn't come through
and that's what I really wanted and I run this screenwriting award and said
you know so yeah but that being said you say people rush to get their screenplay
and you can just tell that they haven't invested enough so then what is that
disconnect there you can tell that this is what they want to be doing but then
they submit something sometimes not everybody well it's but it's because you
know because we have to learn that you know when you're when you're a
developing writer you know and you ignore the feedback that you're trying
to give yourself but you're like no but I want it to be done and it's done let's
go shoot it you know it's like then you don't get the response you go oh I
should have kept rewriting I knew it wasn't good I knew I had problems with
it but I submitted it to blue cat anyways and then I got feedback and it
clearly it's not ready yet and then then it season the more the
seasoned writer the more you know developer either one is more mature it's
like I'm not gonna submit that because that's not ready I need to like make it
ready then I put my best foot forward how do you monitor yourself in terms of
wanting to put something out there and knowing okay you know what I know myself
this isn't ready yet yeah I mean I I know like myself like yeah I mean I know
that it's not good enough and then it's you know or I want you know sometimes
I'm like I want to get feedback so I have a table reading or I have somebody
read it gonna be like what do you think you know you want some feedback but in
do you definitely not gonna like send it off to the producer or the actress
that's attached to your project or whatever until like till you've done a
lot more you know and so there's certain certain
stages where I'm like you know it's like you already know that this is broken you
don't need to like send this out again or you nee you got a few already have
given yourself notes so we give ourselves notes then we get notes from
other people then we can move it down the food up the food chain but generally
we have to we you know it's it's all about being honest and transparent with
ourselves and and having you know and knowing that but you do learn that for
by sort of the early days when you're like well I'm gonna just I want to see I
wanted somebody to read this and you just and then you're like okay I think
I'm gonna wait next time before somebody reads it cuz that wasn't too Pleasant
they didn't really respond and by the way PS I knew it wasn't ready but I sent
it to them anyways cuz I just wanted somebody to read it you just want to
like make it it makes it real when somebody else reads I wrote a screenplay
but after you sort of get over the novelty of that then you start to
wanting like to make write better work so we had some YouTube questions come in
earlier and this is from Harry ml that's the username how to make characters
consistent but act in surprising ways you know writers have impulses inside
them that they often don't follow because they want to stay on track with
an outline or they want to stay on track with a beat sheet or a plan and or they
have expectations for what is appropriate for a certain story or a
kind of genre that they're writing and so they ignore the impulses or the
intuitive thoughts that they have the imagination sparks and those are the
things when you surprise yourself with an idea you need to embrace it
you know whenever something comes up in your mind you know we self censor a lot
and we're like I mean he can't rip her shirt off right
there that's us like now it's not a it's gotta be something else and it's just
like well maybe he does and maybe she like grabs his wrist after that because
any other love and then what happens then what happens then what happens then
you're going down the rabbit hole and you're making things up and you're
surprising yourself that's how we create you know characters obviously you know
we want the character to still be the character is would the character maybe
want to rip the dress rip the shirt off or whatever or grab the paint can and or
run out of the car and start running out of the field when they were supposed to
stay in the car in the outline and then they started running toward the football
field when you started to write it are you going to allow that to happen and I
think we know we writers have to listen to their instrument listen to their
imagination you know you don't talk about imagination a lot and when we talk
about the craft of screenwriting we don't really talk about imagination like
what that is and like how we like what if what if that whole thing and we don't
cultivate that because it really is so messy and so nonlinear and spontaneous
that it's hard to write a book about it like it's hard to organize a system a
beat sheet or a formula about imagination and but that really is how
you create on surprising revelatory behavior it's sort of like and then what
if this happens and you're just like oh my god you know we were talking about
the meg and and how people like kind of just you know are like I'm not gonna see
this shark movie with Jason Statham and it's a genre movie and like silly stupid
movie right but there were a couple moments in there that were completely
surprising and I thought a plus that stuff that doesn't happen in movies
where it's like the audience completely fell into a lull and then the plot
whence left and and it was like and it wasn't like Oh give me a break it was
like oh is plausible and it's arresting and it's
a surprise and it very likely will probably came from the imagination of
their author going well and then they thought of it and they thought why not
let's try that and and embracing it because initially you come up with
something like that you go ooh you know an audience we like what you know so it
you know I think that that's what it is it's like paying attention to your own
impulses and listening to your own voice you listen to your own voice and and not
have it and let it be the primary thing in the in the creative act of your
screen of your script then you're then that will allow for these surprises to
happen it reminds me of when sharp objects first came out I didn't see it
when it first initially came out but I watched people's reactions on Twitter
and by seeing that then I was like okay then I want to see it yeah because they
were like shocked and let's assume these were real Twitter accounts right people
were they couldn't believe it you know Amy Adams can play so many amazing
characters but she was playing a damaged character that was so fun to watch right
right right so a so absolutely I mean that's what we want to do and and that
all comes from someone being being allowing themselves to be creative you
know you've got to say like you know I'm gonna just have her like run out of the
car and now and that's gonna totally screw up my outline but it's really cool
but it could maybe I could have a lot more work to do because I'm making this
decision but I'd rather do a lot more work and not be lazy and embrace it you
know because it's really revelatory and awesome but people don't want to do that
they're like if I ever do that then everything screwed up and I want to so
I'm just gonna stay on course on the most on the thing that's not surprising
and people are predicting because I'm predicting everything because I'm
following a road back you lose the roadmap and you start
flying by the seat of your pants that's like what's gonna happen I don't
know what's gonna happen you know do you think that's really laziness or that's
wanting to be again the teacher's pet versus the Johnny Rotten in the backs
you know that well of course it's fear of course there's fear of like oh I need
to do it this way or it's not gonna work out but I hopefully I think mostly
writers and they won't upend their outline or they won't up and their plans
or whatever I mean a lot of them will say well look if it goes off my script I
always embrace it but I don't know I don't I mean I think I think a lot of
people I think we write outlines a lot of times to make the process faster but
at the expense of something being more surprising and revelatory a lot of
things don't need to be outlined if they're character-driven
you can sort of discover a lot of a lot of really special moments in a story by
just seeing where it goes heist movie a murder mystery that
becomes more difficult to just sort of follow character impulses because you've
got more of a puzzle to figure out it's like okay how does this gonna work but
you know so this question came in from right heroes that's the YouTube user
does a no-name person who submits to the competition with no previous sales no
contacts have a chance of winning and the screenplay is good absolutely I mean
ever almost everybody who submits is at that same situation and we don't I don't
ever look at names or agents or anything like that when we're here somebody is
like you know I mean absolutely there's no day everybody has the same chance and
you know if anyone is submitting to blue cat and they've already have I mean you
know so most people are in that case and so absolutely not there's no prejudice
towards people that I've known a game or haven't done anything yet okay perfect
moving on CCH is the youtube user are there any blue cat submissions that
after all this time still stand out and your
memory and if so why absolutely there's so several scripts that stand out and
they stand out because I I was overwhelmed by them you know sort of in
awe of them there's just special they're beautiful some of the ones that were
finalists or didn't totally make it but I just never forgot and then I it also
happens with students that I've taught you know I've caught a lot and their
scripts that I've never forgotten and it's usually it's usually the the
original voice it's the somebody tried something that was way outside the box
and that you just have never seen before and and they and they were able to pull
it off it was something really brave and I believe everybody has the capacity to
take that risk I don't think that there's some people that are like oh you
know I'm not I'm not brave it's like everybody has the capacity everybody has
that story that they feel uncomfortable to telling or they think that it's like
why would no one's gonna make this and most of the scripts that I remember and
that do well with little cat are people that are like you know what I'm gonna
write this even though it's embarrassing because they're gonna think it's about
me or they're going to think that it's they're gonna think I'm I am interested
in something like this or I'm gonna write this and there's no chance why am
I wasting my time on this or this is not something anyone's gonna be interested
in or no one's gonna buy it you know somebody just says I think that this is
special I think this is different I've never seen this before I think this
is funny I think this is beautiful I think this is tragic I think this is
awful or I think this is so scary I'm gonna
write this and those people tend to produce work that you know really stays
with you and I mean Anna Lily I'm abhors work you know the stones that one blue
cat know she ended up taking some of those characters and making girl walks
home alone at night you know they appeared in and she sort of repurposed
those characters and that little bit of that world and the feeling of that world
in the movie in her debut movie girl walks home alone tonight and and you
know I never you know I I never I never will never forget crying at the end of
will of that script you know getting to the end of that script and the tears
welling up and I remember exactly the couch I was sitting on I remember
Gary the tennis coach that got made by Sony as balls out and I was very much
changed the script very much changed but when it won I remember laughs I still
remember where I was when I was reading it and laughing out loud the first
couple of pages of that script and you know I gave that script to a producer
and Sony ended up getting involved with out in making that movie with Sean
William Scott and it's called balls out now and that was the that was the script
so so these kind of experiences you know yeah absolutely they stay with you it's
always because somebody wrote what they wanted to write and they had no fear
about it and they any any misgivings any anxiety any second thoughts they just
said screw it I think this is going to be a cool movie and they wrote it
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