JUDY WOODRUFF: Good evening.
I'm Judy Woodruff.
On the "NewsHour" tonight: in the hot seat.
Secretary of State Pompeo faces senators amid growing questions over the Trump administration's
relations with Russia and the U.S. role in the world.
Then: A secret recording between the president and his personal lawyer surfaces -- what it
shows about the plan to pay off a former Playboy model and the larger questions raised about
truth and falsehoods in the time of Mr. Trump.
And the Leading Edge of science: a look inside the discovery of a subterranean lake on Mars.
All that and more on tonight's "PBS NewsHour."
(BREAK)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has spent this afternoon defending the first
Trump-Putin summit.
But as U.S. senators turned up the heat over Helsinki, word came that a second summit,
in Washington this fall, will be delayed until next year.
The statement from national security adviser, John Bolton, said -- quote -- "The president
believes that the next bilateral meeting with President Putin should take place after the
Russia witch-hunt is over."
That's a reference to the special counsel's investigation.
We will have a full report after the news summary.
President Trump and the leader of the European Commission say they have agreed to turn from
tariffs to talks.
They met at the White House today, and afterward, Jean-Claude Juncker said both sides will hold
off further tariffs while negotiations continue.
Mr. Trump said the E.U. promised to buy -- quote -- "a lot of soybeans" and liquefied gas.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: We agreed today, first of all, to work together
toward zero tariffs, zero non-tariff barriers, and zero subsidies on non-auto industrial
goods.
This will open markets for farmers and workers, increase investment and lead to greater prosperity
in both the United States and the European Union.
JUDY WOODRUFF: It's unclear whether the E.U.'s purchase of soybeans will come close to making
up for lost sales to China.
This month, Beijing imposed tariffs on U.S. soybeans, responding to American tariffs on
steel and aluminum.
Yesterday, the Trump administration announced $12 billion in aid for farmers.
Republicans in Georgia have chosen a candidate for governor endorsed by President Trump over
one endorsed by the current governor.
Brian Kemp won a decisive victory in Tuesday's run-off with Lieutenant Governor Casey Cagle.
Kemp campaigned on protecting gun rights and rounding up people who are in the country
illegally.
He will face Democratic nominee Stacey Abrams in November.
The people of Pakistan turned out today to elect a new Parliament and prime minister.
And opposition leader Imran Khan took an early commanding lead, but the voting was marred
by violence.
Martin Geissler of Independent Television News reports from Islamabad.
MARTIN GEISSLER: Pakistan's troubled election came to a bloody end today.
In the city of Quetta, more than 30 were killed by a suicide bomber as they queued to vote.
So-called Islamic State claimed responsibility.
Just outside Islamabad, bomb disposal teams checked the streets around Imran Khan's polling
station.
He arrived surrounded by anti-terror squad officers, calm amid the chaos around him.
A world-famous former cricketer, with a privileged background and an Oxford education, he cast
himself as a populist, a man of the people.
He's pledged to end corruption and ease poverty here.
His country, he told me, was seeing true democracy at last.
Has this election been free and fair?
IMRAN KHAN, National Assembly of Pakistan: It is one of the freest and fairest elections
in Pakistan.
The 2013 election, all the parties said it was rigged; 22 parties said the election was
rigged.
And I was the only one who said there should be an investigation.
So, 2018 election, this election should be free and fair.
MARTIN GEISSLER: And everyone's conscience can be clear now?
IMRAN KHAN: I'm clear.
I'm clear.
MARTIN GEISSLER: But not everyone is so sure.
This campaign has been blighted by allegations of corruption, among the loudest, a claim
the military have manipulated the vote in Imran Khan's favor.
JUDY WOODRUFF: That report from Martin Geissler of Independent Television News.
In Southern Syria, health officials say a wave of suicide bombings killed more than
200 people.
The Islamic State group has claimed responsibility.
It happened in Sweida province.
That's east of where Syria's military is engaged in a major offensive.
One blast struck a vegetable market in the main city of Sweida.
Other coordinated attacks hit villages throughout the province.
The death toll from Monday's firestorm in Greece rose to at least 79 today, with up
to 100 missing.
Residents and rescue workers in Mati, east of Athens, searched burned-out homes for loved
ones.
Survivors told of watching the flames roar down on them.
MAN (through translator): There was a great panic because the whole street was blocked
by cars.
Shouting, hysteria.
They could see the fire was coming with the wind.
It already smelled a lot.
The sky was black.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Flags across Athens flew at half-staff today to begin three days of national
mourning.
They're still looking for survivors and victims from Monday's dam collapse in Laos.
The local Red Cross said today that workers have found 24 bodies so far.
Today, survivors gathered in shelters.
They're among the more than 6,000 made homeless after walls of water smashed their villages.
Back in this country, extreme heat kept the southwest on the broil.
Power demand hit new records around Phoenix, Arizona, and temperatures headed into the
triple digits again across several states.
Just yesterday, Death Valley, California, hit a record high of 127 degrees.
And on Wall Street, stocks rose on hopes for easing trade tensions.
The Dow Jones industrial average gained 172 points to close at 25414.
The Nasdaq rose 91 points, and the S&P 500 added 25.
Still to come on the "NewsHour": senators grill secretary of state Mike Pompeo about
Russia; the secret recording of President Trump and a larger question of truth-telling;
a kind of liquid water lake found on Mars; and much more.
The Trump administration's foreign policy came under fire today on Capitol Hill.
For the first time since President Trump met with leaders from North Korea and Russia,
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was grilled at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing.
Nick Schifrin has the story.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Two months, two summits, two mysteries: What did the president promise
in his meetings with Russian President Vladimir Putin...
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Great to be with you.
NICK SCHIFRIN: ... and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un?
Today, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo defended the administration.
But before he could even begin, Republican Chairman Bob Corker, who is not running for
reelection, unloaded on the nation's top diplomat.
SEN.
BOB CORKER (R), Tennessee: You come before a group of senators today who are filled with
serious doubts about this White House and its conduct of American foreign policy.
In the summit's aftermath, we saw an American president who appeared submissive and deferential.
From where we sit, it appears that, in a ready, fire, aim, fashion, the White House is waking
up every morning to making it up as they go.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Pompeo began by trying to reassure senators on the administration's Russian policy,
announcing what he called the new Crimea declaration.
In 2014, Russian troops helped push through a Crimea referendum that led to its annexation.
After, the U.S. imposed sanctions and refused to recognize Crimea as part of Russia.
Pompeo reiterated those policies.
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. Secretary of State: I want to assure this committee that the United States
does not and will not recognize the Kremlin's purported annexation of Crimea.
There will be no relief of Crimea-related sanctions until Russia returns control of
the Crimean Peninsula to Ukraine.
NICK SCHIFRIN: But Republican and Democratic senators expressed repeated concerns about
last week's summit in Helsinki, and what the president did and didn't offer, led by ranking
member New Jersey Democrat Bob Menendez.
SEN.
ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), New Jersey: Did he tell Putin that I will release or ultimately relax
sanctions?
MIKE POMPEO: Senator, what you need to conduct your role, your appropriate role, I will provide
you today.
And I can confirm to you that no commitment has been made to change those policies in
any way.
Senator, the president was very clear with Vladimir Putin about U.S. positions.
They are the U.S. positions that are the Trump administration's positions.
And he spoke about them very firmly and clearly when he met with Vladimir Putin.
SEN.
ROBERT MENENDEZ: And that -- he told you that?
MIKE POMPEO: Senator, I'm telling you what he had a conversation with Vladimir Putin
about, and I'm telling you what U.S. policy is today.
I understand.
Senator, I understand the game that you're playing.
I get it.
SEN.
ROBERT MENENDEZ: With all due respect, I don't appreciate you characterizing my questions.
My questions is to get to the truth.
We don't know what the truth is.
Let me ask you this.
Were -- did the president say that we're going to change our force structure in Syria?
MIKE POMPEO: Senator, presidents are permitted to have conversations with their Cabinet members
that aren't repeated in public.
DAN COATS, U.S. National Intelligence Director: I don't know what happened in that meting.
NICK SCHIFRIN: But, last week, Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, a Cabinet
member, admitted he hadn't gotten a readout.
Today, Pompeo insisted the president was communicating with his staff and being tough on Russia.
MIKE POMPEO: There's a narrative that has developed that somehow President Trump is
weak on Russia, and when in fact the...
NICK SCHIFRIN: Americans support the president's outreach to Russia.
In a new "PBS NewsHour"/NPR/Marist poll, 59 percent of Americans think it's better to
for the U.S. to build a relationship with Russia.
But they don't support the president's style; 64 percent of Americans
believe Trump has not been tough enough on Russia, including 47 percent of Republicans
and 64 percent of independents.
And 72 percent of Americans believe U.S. intelligence agencies' accusation that Russia interfered
in 2016 over Russia's denials, including 63 percent of Republicans.
Pompeo insisted the president agreed with U.S. intelligence agencies' assessment that
Russia launched an influence campaign in the 2016 elections.
MIKE POMPEO: He has a complete and proper understanding of what happened.
I know.
I briefed him on it for over a year.
This is perfectly clear to me personally.
I'm also certain he deeply respects the difficult and dangerous work that our patriots in the
intelligence community do every single day.
NICK SCHIFRIN: In Congress, there's momentum for a new Russian sanctions package, and Pompeo
came out in favor of a bill that would trigger automatic sanctions if the intelligence community
concluded a foreign country meddled in U.S. elections.
MIKE POMPEO: There is a cost-benefit calculation that's undertaken before the Russians act.
And so it follows necessarily that putting on notice with essentially a failsafe, if
you will, about things that will follow has the likelihood of being successful in raising
the cost in terms of how he calculates risks associated with a very -- a wide range of
actions.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Earlier this month, Pompeo made at least his fourth trip to North Korea
to try and convince Kim Jong-un to verifiably give up as nuclear weapons.
U.S. intelligence believes North Korea is dismantling an engine testing site.
But North Korea has not made any other public concessions.
And Massachusetts Democrat Edward Markey worried the U.S. wasn't getting enough.
SEN.
EDWARD MARKEY (D), Massachusetts: So, I am afraid that, at this point, the United States,
the Trump administration is being taken for a ride.
MIKE POMPEO: Fear not, Senator.
We have no intention of allowing the U.N. sanctions, the world's sanctions that we led
the charge to have put in place, to allowing those sanctions to either be lifted or not
enforced.
NICK SCHIFRIN: But even after two hours of testimony, Chairman Corker said he still had
concerns, and he accused President Trump of purposely sowing discord in America's foreign
policy.
SEN.
BOB CORKER: I think you're a patriot.
Tremendous faith in Mattis.
But it's the president's actions that create tremendous distrust in our nation, among our
allies.
It's palpable.
We meet and talk with them.
Is there a strategy to this?
Or is it -- what is it that causes the president to purposely, purposely create distrust in
these institutions and what we're doing?
NICK SCHIFRIN: So, did Secretary Pompeo successfully address concerns about President Trump's approach
to Russia and North Korea?
For that, we get two views from senators who were at today's hearing.
We begin with Senator James Risch of Idaho.
He also serves on the Senate's Intelligence Committee.
Senator, thank you very much.
Welcome to the program.
A fellow Republican, Chairman Bob Corker, expressed very deep concerns about President
Trump's approach to both summits with President Putin and Chairman Kim Jong-un, and not only
that, the White House's general foreign policy.
Do you share those concerns?
SEN.
JAMES RISCH (R), Idaho: Well, first of all, Bob Corker is a really good friend of mine,
and I have great respect for his opinion.
But he and I do differ significantly on a number of these issues.
I think that Secretary Pompeo really laid out an excellent case today about how tough
President Trump has been on Russia, more so than any of his predecessors, be it sanctions,
be it money spent on helping NATO, being money spent on helping the people in Eastern Ukraine,
the fact that they are absolutely refusing to accept Russia's annexation of the Crimea,
and the list goes on and on and on.
I think he did really an excellent job of putting to rest the national media's obsession
with this issue.
NICK SCHIFRIN: As you know, a lot of people who are concerned with President Trump's policies
towards Russia do acknowledge that actually this administration's policies towards Russia,
as you mentioned, for example, with sanctions, Eastern Ukraine, has been tougher than his
predecessors.
A lot of people are worried about the rhetoric from the president himself and his wavering
on whether he trusts the intelligence community's assessment on Russia and 2016.
Are you worried about the president's rhetoric?
SEN.
JAMES RISCH: Well, look, everybody speaks differently.
Certainly, I wouldn't say it the same way the president would, and nobody else would
say it exactly the same way either.
But, as you point out, even the -- even the president's enemies and his critics acknowledge
that he has been tougher than anybody else.
So, you got to look at what a person does and not pay nearly as much attention to the
rhetoric.
As far as his acknowledgement that the Russians were involved in the 2016 election, Secretary
Pompeo shot that right out of -- right out of the shoot when he started and said, the
president is absolutely convinced that it happened, he trusts the intelligence agencies.
I sit on the Foreign -- or I sit not only on the Foreign Relations Committee, but also
the Intelligence Committee.
I have looked at thousands and thousands of documents.
Everyone acknowledges that the Russians were -- were involved.
I think one of the problems they have is when people try to tie that to the president, saying
that somehow he colluded.
There was no collusion.
And there's been no evidence of collusion.
And I think the president rightfully takes exception to people who claim that there was.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Let me switch the topic to North Korea.
The secretary, of course, was asked about North Korea multiple times.
We have recently seen the intelligence community say, yes, they are dismantling an engine test
site.
But that is all that North Korea has publicly done in terms of denuclearization.
Is North Korea doing enough?
And is the U.S. getting enough, given what the secretary said, not to worry about North
Korea's commitments?
SEN.
JAMES RISCH: Well, first of all, I have just been shocked at the national media's hunger
for the president to fail on the North Korea issue.
We're all Americans.
We should be pulling for the president to be successful in this regard.
The president was very successful in getting the North Koreans to reverse their position
on nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
He should be given credit for that, instead of criticized for it.
In addition to that, there have been a number of things that have happened since they did
reverse positions, not the least of which was the rhetoric stopped from the North Koreans.
And, number two, they have quit testing.
And, number three, we have seen a number of things on the ground, some of which I can
talk about here, most of which I can't talk about here, that indicates that they are heading
towards a denuclearization.
Secretary Pompeo was questioned about that, and gave some outline of it, but conceded
that he was going to have to, in a closed session, disclose more of what he knows, although
those of us who've been through those closed sessions already know.
I suspect we're going to have a closed session in the very near future where we have discussions
of that.
But, look, this thing is -- this thing is moving forward well.
I'm just -- I'm amazed when I turn on the TV and see the talking heads tell us that,
oh, the president's failing on North Korea.
Look at the years that it took Barack Obama to get to a very bad agreement in Iran.
The president wants a good agreement.
Let's be a little patient with him and give him credit for what he's been able to achieve
so far.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Senator James Risch of Idaho, thank you very much.
SEN.
JAMES RISCH: Thank you.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Now, for a perspective from the other side of the aisle, Democratic Senator
Jeff Merkley of Oregon.
Senator, thank you very much for joining us.
Secretary Pompeo -- Secretary Pompeo said that the administration's been tough on Russia,
tougher than its predecessor, and that the president has the prerogative to have private
conversations with his own Cabinet and with other leaders.
Were those answers sufficient?
SEN.
JEFF MERKLEY (D), OREGON: Oh, absolutely not.
What we have seen is a president who refused to critique Russia on their -- their annexation
of Crimea, their holding the eastern edge of Ukraine.
He hasn't criticized them over the attacks on individuals in Britain with chemical weapons.
He hasn't criticized them for cozying up and supporting the Syrian government as it dropped
barrel bombs and gassed its own people.
And he certainly hasn't criticized them for cyber-attacking our elections.
And we heard nothing today to contravene that.
In fact, what we did hear, the one thing we did hear is that there is not yet any type
of agreement with North Korea, not even over creating an inventory of its ballistic missile
and nuclear assets.
NICK SCHIFRIN: I want to get to North Korea in a second.
But the president's defenders on Russia say, well, you are criticizing some of the president's
rhetoric or lack of criticism, as you put it, but the policies have been aggressive
on Russia in Eastern Ukraine, and also that the president has actually pushed forward,
in terms of getting rid of Russian intelligence officials and closed consulates in the U.S.
,something his predecessor didn't do.
SEN.
JEFF MERKLEY: Well, was noted in the hearing today, the president has failed to implement
all of the cuts, provisions or sanctions on Russia.
We basically, Democrats, Republicans, all came together and said, you must do this,
which is just unprecedented.
And the president still was very slow to implement, very slow to act.
He's had to have been drugged, screaming into taking any type of firm stand in that regard.
NICK SCHIFRIN: The president's defenders also say that Russia and the United States have
90 percent of the world's nuclear weapons, the two leaders should be talking.
Don't you believe that the two leaders should be talking?
SEN.
JEFF MERKLEY: Oh, absolutely, I agree with that.
But it helps to have a -- the president actually learn something about the topics before he
meets with a former spy chief who's extraordinarily capable.
The president came away essentially spouting all of the positions of the Russian government,
instead of fighting for the United States.
We need a watchdog for the United States.
We need a fierce effort to take on the cyber-attacks in the United States, which really are acts
of war.
We need the president to say, get those additional sanctions done, I'm going to implement them,
and pass the DETER Act, which would say, if Russia meddles in another election, there
will be enormous economic consequences for that nation.
We need a tough, president, not this weak repetition of Russian talking points from
our commander in chief.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Secretary of State Pompeo indicated that he would support a further bill that
would actually impose automatic sanctions on Russia or any other country that is deemed
to impede in U.S. elections.
Do you trust and believe that the U.S. administration will actually protect this election and elections
moving forward?
SEN.
JEFF MERKLEY: Well, I am pleased to hear that today.
But we need the president to actually come to Capitol Hill, make the case, say to the
Senate, get it -- get it passed, say to the House, get it passed, I want it on my desk.
We need the president show some leadership on this.
NICK SCHIFRIN: On North Korea, we have seen a freeze in missile and nuclear tests.
We have seen the closing of this engine testing site.
Are those signs, as Secretary Pompeo suggested today, that the U.S. and North Korea are in
a better place today than they were under the previous two administrations?
SEN.
JEFF MERKLEY: We have had under previous presidents North Korea do the same dance.
They put in a temporary freeze.
They said they support complete denuclearization.
We have even gotten further with some detailed agreements.
This administration hasn't gotten to the detailed agreements, not even a survey of their ballistic
missile capabilities or of their enrichment capabilities or of their nuclear warhead capabilities.
And, in fact, today, it was confirmed by the secretary that North Korea at this very moment
is continuing to enrich and create more nuclear materials.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Secretary Pompeo -- quickly, Senator, in the 30 seconds we have left, Secretary
Pompeo insisted that there are other issues that have been discussed between the U.S.
and North Korea that he couldn't talk about in open session.
Do you have faith that there are other issues that North Korea has pledged to that will
lead to denuclearization?
SEN.
JEFF MERKLEY: No, I don't have much faith.
I'm in a show-me mode.
We have security clearances.
He could come and brief us on that.
But, at this point, there's very little to show, other than the same dance we have seen
under previous efforts, in fact, even less now, because our president, up front, agreed,
not as a reward for advancing, but just as a concession, tore down our joint exercises
with South Korea.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon, thank you very much.
SEN.
JEFF MERKLEY: You're welcome.
Thank you.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The fallout continued today from a secret recording of then candidate
Donald Trump discussing hush money to a former Playboy model.
Yamiche Alcindor begins our coverage.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Well, thank you very much.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR: The big topic at the White House today was supposed to be trade, but
when President Trump and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker ended the public
portion of the meeting, they were sprayed with questions about something entirely different:
QUESTION: Did Michael Cohen betray you?
DONALD TRUMP: Thank you very much.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR: This new talk about the president's former lawyer Michael Cohen comes
as a new recording has been made public: a September 2016 conversation between Cohen
and then candidate Donald Trump.
CNN, the first news outlet to obtain the tape, reported that it got the recording from Cohen's
legal team.
In the recording, which Cohen's legal team declined to provide to the "NewsHour," Cohen
seems to be discussing a possible way to send payments to David, David Pecker, chairman
of America Media, Inc., which owns The National Enquirer tabloid.
MICHAEL COHEN, Former Special Counsel to Donald Trump: I need to open up a company for the
transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David, you know, so that -- I'm going
to do that right away.
When it comes time for the financing, which will be...
DONALD TRUMP: Wait a sec.
What financing?
MICHAEL COHEN: Well, I will have to pay him something.
DONALD TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) pay with cash.
MICHAEL COHEN: No, no, no, no, no.
I got it.
DONALD TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) check.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Days before the 2016 election, The Wall Street Journal reported that American
Media agreed to pay $150,000 to former Playboy model Karen McDougal for her story alleging
that she had an affair with Mr. Trump a decade ago, a story that American Media never ran.
In the report, the company disputed the characterization of the payment.
And then-spokeswoman Hope Hicks responded on behalf of the Trump campaign: "We have
no knowledge of any of this."
Today, the dispute between lawyers for the two men was over what was actually said in
the recording about how the payment to Pecker could be made.
Lanny Davis, an attorney for Cohen, told ABC this:
LANNY DAVIS, Attorney for Michael Cohen: The word is cash.
Everybody should listen to the tape to see whether I'm right or not.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR: While Rudy Giuliani, a personal attorney for Mr. Trump, wrote: "Why are Cohen
and Lanny Davis misrepresenting the language from President Trump?
Do not pay by cash.
Check."
The apparent break between President Trump and his longtime associate comes despite Cohen's
past statements of loyalty.
He told "Vanity Fair" magazine for an article last year: "I'm the guy who would take a bullet
for the president."
But, since then, it has become public that federal authorities in New York are investigating
Cohen.
And Davis, Cohen's current lawyer, told ABC Cohen's priorities have changed.
LANNY DAVIS: He's now dedicated to telling the truth to everyone, and we will see what
happens.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR: As for the why behind Cohen's apparent break from Mr. Trump, today, Davis
denied that Cohen was still seeking a pardon from the president.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Yamiche Alcindor.
JUDY WOODRUFF: A note: The CNN reporter whom we heard just ask the president if attorney
Michael Cohen betrayed him was a little later barred by the White House from attending an
open press event in the Rose Garden.
Kaitlan Collins was told by the deputy White House chief of staff and the press secretary
that her questions were -- quote -- "inappropriate."
We take a closer look now at what we know about the president's former lawyer and his
legal troubles with attorney Renato Mariotti.
He's a former federal prosecutor.
He currently works in private practice in Chicago,.
Renato Mariotti, thank you for joining us.
What do you hear in that recording that's significant?
RENATO MARIOTTI, Former Federal Prosecutor: Well, one thing they hear, Judy, is a discussion
that makes it clear that the president is familiar with this transaction, that he knows
the circumstances of it.
He does not seem surprised by the subject at all.
That would make it very difficult for the president or his legal team to say later that
the president had no knowledge of this matter.
It also -- you know, the fact that he talks in the plural suggests that this isn't the
first time that he's dealt with a situation like this.
You know, if I had asked you -- if I demanded payment from you for information, you -- I'm
sure you would have a lot of questions about it.
You would want to know how you could be sure that the story wouldn't get published, and
you would have a lot of questions about the details.
You know, there's really not a lot of questions here.
This seems almost like a standard transaction.
The president suggests a number, 150, very quickly.
And then there's obviously this whole -- as you played a moment ago, this whole discussion
of cash.
And regardless of how you read the conversation, whether you accept Mr. Giuliani's version
or the version of Mr. Cohen's lawyer put forward, the fact that a lawyer was discussing whether
or not to pay in cash for a large financial transaction is very unusual.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, what does this mean in terms of legal jeopardy, either for Michael
Cohen, who we believe to be under investigation, or for President Trump?
Do you hear anything that crosses the line?
RENATO MARIOTTI: Well, certainly, this is a -- this is a problem for -- in terms of
campaign finance violations.
What's been reported is that Mr. Cohen is under investigation for both campaign finance
violations and for fraud.
And as to the campaign finance violations, there's discussion on this tape of another
related -- sort of related matter, that there -- that the president suggests could be pushed
off until after the election.
There is a -- there's an issue of timing there.
And I think that's important, because what the legal issue is regarding campaign finance
is whether or not these payments to women would be considered an expense that is related
to the campaign.
Typically, the president would have, I think, a very strong defense that anyone would want
to hide their -- you know, their personal affairs from the public or from others and
to protect their spouse and their family, regardless of whether they're in the middle
of a campaign.
The fact, though, that during the same conversation, the president is talking about timing and
it appears to be related to pushing something off after the election suggests that the purpose
of this conversation and of the payment was related to the election.
And I think that, in particular, would be problematic.
And like I said earlier, the mere fact that the president knows about the payment and
knows the specifics also could potentially create problems for him when combined with
other evidence.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, we know that this recording was -- they waived the right of privilege
here in making it public.
I think there's some -- I think I don't -- and many others who don't know the law want to
understand, why would that be?
Why would they waive the privilege of the president, the client speaking to his lawyer?
RENATO MARIOTTI: Well, Judy, you and the viewers at home aren't the only ones who want to know
that.
Many lawyers have asked me that question over the last week, because, typically -- or over
the last 24 hours -- because, typically, lawyers are very reluctant to waive privilege.
Not only is it because you can't take that waiver back once you have waved it, but sometimes
waiving privilege over one recording or one document opens up the privilege as to other
documents and recordings, because courts don't want to let you -- don't want you to use privilege
as a way of unmasking only certain things, to waive privilege over the documents or the
recordings that are helpful to you and maintain privilege as to others.
So, often, that can mean that the privilege is waived as to a number of documents or a
number of recordings.
So, typically, attorneys are very reluctant to waive privilege.
There's really no legal strategy that can explain why they have waived privilege here.
That must be a P.R. or press strategy or something unrelated to the legal strategy here.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Just very quickly, Renato Mariotti, what questions do you have after this that
are not answered?
RENATO MARIOTTI: The question is -- the questions I have relate to the fraud charges that are
supposedly under investigation by federal prosecutors.
We still don't know what they're looking at or what those charges are centered around.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, now this and a number of other things are raising questions we're
all seeking answers to.
Renato Mariotti, thank you very much.
RENATO MARIOTTI: Thank you, Judy.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, as we heard, Michael Cohen's recordings contradict what the Trump campaign
said they knew about model Karen McDougal at the time.
It is one of a number of false statements that, over time, have come from President
Trump or a member of his team.
At the "NewsHour," we do not report on all of them.
But, tonight, we want to take a moment to step back and look broadly at President Trump's
record on truth-telling and what it means for our democracy.
We start with some background.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: We're putting America first again, and we're
seeing the incredible results.
JUDY WOODRUFF: When weighing what's true and what isn't, one of the president's favorite
targets is the news media and the many news organization he attacks.
That was the case last night when he spoke to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Kansas
City and stirred up the crowd.
DONALD TRUMP: Just stick with us.
Don't believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
DONALD TRUMP: Just remember, what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But in just the last few weeks alone, the president has made a number of
misleading or inaccurate statements on subjects ranging from Russian interference in U.S.
politics to farmers and trade to how much member NATO countries spend on defense.
Mr. Trump's statements on Russia have gotten the most attention, particularly after his
news conference with President Putin in Helsinki, where he seemed to agree with Putin, instead
of U.S. intelligence.
DONALD TRUMP: I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in
his denial today.
JUDY WOODRUFF: That brought condemnation from both political parties, including Republican
Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona, a frequent critic.
SEN.
JEFF FLAKE (R), Arizona: We have indulged myths and fabrications, pretended that it
wasn't so bad, and our indulgence got us the capitulation in Helsinki.
We in the Senate who have been elected to represent our constituents cannot be enablers
of falsehoods.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The next day, Mr. Trump said he stood with U.S. agencies, but even then
he put in a caveat:
DONALD TRUMP: I accept our intelligence community's conclusion that Russia's meddling in the 2016
election took place.
Could be other people also.
There's a lot of people out there.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But a declassified intelligence report shared with Mr. Trump before he became
president concluded that Putin personally -- quote -- "ordered an influence campaign
in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election."
U.S. agencies have not suggested any other country intended to disrupt the election.
Earlier this month, in a tweet about the impact of foreign tariffs on farmers, the president
wrote that farmers have been on a downward trend for 15 years and "A big reason is bad,
terrible trade deals."
But that statement is not accurate.
Farmers have earned less in the past few years, but that's not been the case for 15 years.
In fact, net income adjusted for inflation reached a record in 2013.
And many experts say the problem has not been trade deals, but commodity prices.
The Washington Post, a news organization the president regularly criticizes, keeps its
own list.
It found the president has made more than 3,200 false or misleading claims while in
office.
And that was before the start of summer.
It also analyzed a speech Mr. Trump gave in Montana earlier this month and found 76 percent
of the claims the president made in the speech alone were false, misleading or unsupported
by evidence.
The latest "NewsHour"/NPR/Marist poll asked whether voters think the president generally
tells the truth; 58 percent said only some of the time or hardly ever; 36 percent said
almost all of the time or most of the time.
Republicans believed the president by a large margin.
The poll also asked whether President Trump tells the truth more often or less than prior
U.S. presidents; 56 percent said less often; 32 percent said more often.
For a closer look President Trump and the matter of truth, we turn to Peter Wehner,
a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington.
He served in the last three Republican administrations, Presidents Reagan and both Bushes.
Lara Brown is director of the Graduate School of Political Management at the George Washington
University.
She's also the author of several books on presidents, including "Jockeying For the American
Presidency."
And Domenico Montanaro, he's the lead political editor for NPR.
And we welcome all of you back to the "NewsHour."
Domenico, I'm going to start with you upon.
We were just sharing with the audience some of these poll numbers; 58 percent of those
polled say they think the president tells the truth some of the time or hardly ever.
How does that break down among the electorate?
Who are we talking about here?
DOMENICO MONTANARO, Political Editor, NPR: Well, and if you add never into there, you
get to 61 percent.
So you have a full 60-something percent of the American people who think that this president
either never, hardly ever, or only some of the time tells the truth.
You know, and when you look particularly in the suburbs, where there's going to be all
these key House races, you wind up with seeing that, you know, three-quarters of people who
live in the suburbs, including especially suburban women, who are going to be so key
to this election, really not having a lot of faith in this president or his ability
to tell the truth.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Peter Wehner, the fact that we're even having this conversation tells
us that something different is going on.
As we said, you worked in the Bush White House 41, 43, you worked for President Reagan.
What is different?
PETER WEHNER, Ethics and Public Policy Center: Well, what's different is that we don't have
a run-of-the-mill liar in the White House.
We have a pathological liar.
This is a man who lies on personal matters, political matters, domestic, international.
He lies morning, noon, and night.
And it just is never -- never-ending.
So that's one thing.
We have never had a president who is so pathologically -- lies so pathologically, and lies needlessly
often.
That's one.
The other thing is the number of people in this country who believe in the lies, who
have accepted them.
This has tremendous damaging effects on the political and civic culture of the country.
A self-governing nation can't run if you can't have a common set of facts, if you can't agree
on common realities.
What you have got is a man in the White House who is engaged in not just an assault on truth,
but an effort to annihilate truth.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Annihilate truth.
PETER WEHNER: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: That's an incredible statement.
PETER WEHNER: It's true.
It's not just the lies.
It's that he's trying to destroy the categories of truth and falsity.
And that's really why he goes after the media, right, because the media has always been the
institution in American life that has kept presidents accountable when it comes to what's
true and what's not.
And he knew from the outside of his presidency that he had to delegitimize the media, so
he could get away with this kind of thing.
And this has an enormous seepage effect in the life of a country.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Lara Brown, we all know -- we talked about this before -- politicians exaggerate.
Presidents exaggerate.
They stretch the truth.
Sometimes, they have been found to be lying.
Why -- what is different about right now?
What -- we hear Pete Wehner saying this is an assault on the truth.
How do you see it?
LARA BROWN, Director, George Washington University Graduate School of Political Management: Well,
I would actually agree with that.
I think one of the things that you see with this president and really across the administration
is just a desire to lie on everything.
I mean, there is such a volume of lies, that it actually becomes difficult to catalog.
And it creates confusion among the public.
And, as a result, many people end up trying to understand what is true, what is not.
And that whole conversation about what is truth is precisely what allows his base to
continue to support him and to believe his version of reality, and not the news media's
actual version of reality.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And yet, Domenico, you watch these polls over time, going back to the campaign.
Among the people who support President Trump, they have been willing to pretty much embrace
everything he's done and said.
DOMENICO MONTANARO: Absolutely.
And when, you know, Lara talks about being able to categorize untruths or mischaracterizations,
"The Washington Post" has tried to do that, and it's found some 3,200 misleading statements
or false claims by the president.
That isn't something, as you note, that's really had any effect on his base, obviously.
In this poll, the NPR/"NewsHour" -- "PBS NewsHour"/Marist poll, 85 percent of Republicans still support
this president.
Now, when it comes to independents, which is a really key group, they sort of turned
on this president a year ago.
And two-thirds of them say that they are not -- they do not approve of the job that he's
doing, and they don't believe him.
And a lot of this also has to do with a lot of his personal attributes, his personal characteristics.
You have 60 percent of people in this poll also saying that they're embarrassed by the
president's conduct.
Now, there are a couple caveats I want to put in here, because I went back and looked
at the 2016 exit polls.
And you might remember there that some 60 percent said that President Trump didn't have
the temperament to be president.
They said that he wasn't qualified to serve as president and that they would be concerned
or scared if he won.
And yet he won.
And here we are.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Pete Wehner, as we look back over the last year-and-a-half of the president
in office, are there moments, are there statements of -- where something wasn't borne out by
evidence that you think in particular stand out?
PETER WEHNER: Yes, there are several.
I mean, there's so many, it's hard to -- I would say the Charlottesville event was very
important, when he said that there were good people on both sides.
I think the attacks on the Mueller investigation are extremely important, because this is an
investigation trying to discern truth, and he's trying to destroy it.
The one where he said that Hillary Clinton one because three million illegal votes were
cast.
I will tell you one that might strike people as trivial, but I think, in retrospect, was
extremely important, that was the original lie at the dawn of the presidency of Donald
Trump.
And that was the crowd size, when he insisted and sent his press secretary out to insist
it was larger than Barack Obama's.
In one sense, people will say this is a trivial matter.
What is it?
Who cares?
The reason it mattered is that this was right out of the box, not just a lie, but it was
an assault on empirical, demonstrable facts.
There were pictures that showed the difference.
And that was the tell, as they say, in poker.
That said that this guy was something different.
He was going to go after truth in a way.
And it's been a sustained, relentless assault on truth.
LARA BROWN: I would like to, just for a moment, kind of put some of this into historical context.
When you look back at other presidents who have lied, because most presidents have in
some at least minor ways, sometimes justifiable ones, and sometimes categorically wrong ones,
ones that were morally problematic, you still don't see anything like the sheer kind of
volume that President Trump is doing.
I mean, what we have, when we look back at FDR, he even admitted that he would be perfectly
willing to mislead and tell lies if it were to win the war.
And, of course, he was talking about World War II.
When you look at Richard Nixon with Watergate, that was obviously an obstruction of justice.
And that became a problem for the presidency, and it created a great deal of cynicism among
the public.
When you look at Lyndon Johnson or you look to the Pentagon Papers, we know that there
was lying.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
LARA BROWN: But, again, most of these things were limited by topic or limited in damage.
This is not that kind of a situation.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Pete Wehner, finally, what does this mean for our democracy?
People talk about a democracy is built on a foundation of accepted truths, reality.
What is this doing?
PETER WEHNER: It is hurting democracy.
It's weakening the foundations.
And that's why people have to stand up and speak out.
Democracy is about persuasion, right, not coercion.
And you can't persuade people if you can't agree on facts, you can't even agree on common
problems.
Beyond that, when you enter this realm, it deepens polarization, it deepens the sense
of political tribalism.
All of the anger, all of the divisions are made worse.
But I would say a couple of things.
Viruses create their own antibodies.
And the public can do something about this.
You can do it in your individual lives.
People can do it in social media.
They can make a commitment not to put party loyalties ahead of the truth when they're
in conflict.
They can vote against...
JUDY WOODRUFF: And you think that is happening now?
PETER WEHNER: I think you are starting to get a reaction.
I'm sure you're getting a reaction against it, because people understand both the disorienting
effect of this -- that's one thing
But there's something else going on as well, which is everybody knows in your individual
life you can't live if you don't have a common understanding of truth.
And that's true in a national life as well.
I think Donald Trump, the effect of all of this is exhausting on the public.
I think they're embarrassed, as was said earlier.
And I think they're ashamed of what's happening.
And I think there will be in 2020 and maybe in 2018 a reaction against.
This is not as if America has a terminal disease and nothing can be done.
Individual lives matter.
If one person does something, it may not, but if a lot of people act together, you can
change the political and civic culture.
That's happened before, and it can happen again.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Pete Wehner, Lara Brown, Domenico Montanaro, we thank you all.
LARA BROWN: Thank you.
DOMENICO MONTANARO: Thank you.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Finally, some tantalizing new findings about water on Mars.
Naturally, it raises more questions about the possibility of some kind of extraterrestrial
life there.
It's a perfect fit for our Miles O'Brien and our weekly segment on the Leading Edge of
science.
Amna Nawaz caught up with him.
AMNA NAWAZ: They may have long suspected it, but scientists have finally found for the
first time a large watery reservoir, possibly a lake, beneath the southern ice cap of Mars.
Radar suggests the reservoir is more than 12-miles-wide and similar in some ways to
lakes found beneath the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets on Earth.
It's salty and buried nearly a mile below the three-billion-year-old ice cap.
For many, it's a huge moment.
And that includes Miles, who's long been covering the latest on the Red Planet, and joins me
now.
Miles, for those of us who haven't been following the Red Planet all the years, why is this
such a big deal?
MILES O'BRIEN: Well, Amna, I guess scientists, myself, and anyone who watches this closely
would have been surprised if they didn't find liquid water beneath the surface.
But it's not an easy thing to do.
You know, really, when you think about this, this is the culmination of about 150 years
of work that began with an Italian astronomer by the name of Schiaparelli, who trained his
telescope on Mars and saw what he called canali, which, translated, should mean channels, but
got mistranslated into canals, and really started off a whole trend which led us to
"The War of the Worlds" and the idea that there were really Martians.
This has gone on recently with NASA missions, including the Pathfinder missions, the Curiosity,
Spirit, and Opportunity missions, where there was all kinds of inferences of past water,
mineralogical data, that sort of thing.
Finally, the discovery of water ice at the poles.
So, think about it for a moment.
You have got all this evidence of distant, ancient water.
You have got water ice at the poles.
You know you have a hot core in the middle.
So if there's a hot core in the middle, water ice at the poles, somewhere along the way,
there has got to be water.
And that's what they discovered.
And the significance of that is, on this planet, wherever we find liquid water, no matter where
it is, bottom the ocean, in a hot acidic bath in Yellowstone, underneath a glacier in Antarctica,
wherever that may be, you find life.
AMNA NAWAZ: It's a huge moment.
Let's talk about how we got here in the first place.
What have they been looking at?
What did they use?
How do we know that the water is there?
MILES O'BRIEN: It's a European orbiter by the name of Mars Express.
It's been an orbit for 15 years.
And it has a radar device.
It has this long-wave radar.
It's kind of ground-penetrating radar that's been looking, analyzing beneath the surface
of Mars for all this time.
The data goes back really about a decade.
And the scientists have just been trying very carefully to make sure what they thought they
saw is what they thought.
And, in fact, after all these years of going through all the possibilities of what it might
or might not be, they have come to the conclusion it just has to be water.
And scientists I have talked to today say it's a very elegant piece of science.
There's a radar return about a mile-and-a-half below the surface of the south pole ice that
is clear-cut signs of liquid water.
AMNA NAWAZ: OK, so let's hear from one of the scientists who was actually the lead on
this research.
He's a planetary scientist in Italy.
This is him talking about exactly what they did find there.
Take a listen.
ROBERTO OROSEI, National Institute of Astrophysics: The radar data tell us that this water must
contain a large amount of salts.
This is because the ice above it is very transparent.
And this wouldn't be possible if the ice was too warm, too close to the melting point.
So, we have to conclude that the water in contact with the ice must be at least minus-10,
minus-20, maybe minus-30 Celsius.
AMNA NAWAZ: So, Miles, very salty water, very cold water.
You mentioned life where there is water.
What can actually live in these conditions?
MILES O'BRIEN: Well, your tiny, microscopic things, but that might be the extent of what
we ultimately find -- and it won't be easy to do, but maybe down the road -- in the way
of Martians.
It's important to understand that, you know, at that temperature, you would think it'd
be solid.
But if it's a briny solution, if it's a salty solution, and under pressure, which is what
you would have in this case, it can stay at liquid form at much lower temperatures.
And that part of Mars is a very cold place, indeed.
The question is, how would you ever verify if there were microbes there?
That would require some drilling.
And when I say that, some significant drilling, more than a mile-and-a-half deep at the south
pole.
AMNA NAWAZ: So is that what's next?
We're going to possibly see missions to drill on Mars?
MILES O'BRIEN: Well, the devil is in the details on that one, for sure, Amna....
(LAUGHTER)
MILES O'BRIEN: ... because, if you think about what it takes to do, you know, "Armageddon"-style
drilling with Bruce Willis on Mars, it involves a lot of very heavy machinery and drill bits,
which is very expensive and way beyond our capabilities right now to get to Mars.
One of the scientists I was talking to today, the principal investigator on Spirit and Opportunity,
Steve Squyres said, you know, if there's water there, it's very likely it is in the mid-latitude
regions, which would be a better place for humans to go anyway.
And it might be at a shallower depth, because it's warmer there.
So maybe, just maybe, they could do some drilling mid-latitudes, and it would be not as deep.
But, either way, it's not an easy mission.
So it'll be -- we will have to sort of stay tuned as to whether there are microbes in
this underwater lake in -- on Mars.
AMNA NAWAZ: We will be staying tuned, indeed.
We know you will as well.
Miles O'Brien, always great to talk to you.
MILES O'BRIEN: Amna, it's a pleasure.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And on the "NewsHour" online right now: A new study shows a very tiny amount
of radiation from the 2011 disaster at Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant has made its way into
California grapes, and it could help in the hunt for fraudulent wine.
You can learn more on our Web site, PBS.org/NewsHour.
And that's the "NewsHour" for tonight.
I'm Judy Woodruff.
You can join us online and again here tomorrow evening.
For all of us at the "PBS NewsHour," thank you, and we'll see you soon.
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