Welcome back to the program tonight's guest is a best-selling author.
Her latest book hard bastards - I think that's how hard bastard was meant to be spoken wasn't
it - by a middle class white English Ponce like me.
"It's hard bastards" Her latest book hard bastards takes us on
a violent journey into the murky world of gangsters murderers and professional muscle.
She is the ex-wife of Ronnie Kray and her name is Kate Kray.
Joining Kate on stage is her friend and self-confessed hard bastard big bad John.
[Music] Over there hello it's very good this cheers.
But this chair's going to have to go.
Well you could just eat that couldn't you.
Can we get something bigger for the big bad John?
Now I heard that there was - oh my gosh - we've we've pre-selected the most mafiosi chair
we could find in the building.
Alright John is that gonna be comfortable?
We heard apparently that big bad John wouldn't be you might not have been able to make it
onto the programme because you were doing an audition for something today?
I was doing an audition for it was for a film.
For a film what was the film?
The film is called SW9 it said in Brixton right so I think this will be something very
similar to the lock stock all right not not that not in the kind of
Notting Hill kind of way but more in the lock stock kind of way
yeah I don't know you know Notting Hill was filmed in Dagenham
if you say so if you say so it must be true no it's not but I thank you for deferring
to me I suspect it may be the last time in the interview that that happens
Right hello How are you Kate - do you mind do you mind
John because obviously John is forgive me the show pony of the interview but do you
mind if I speak to you first because I'm quite interested John you happy
I'm happy being the show pony for you You've never been called that before have
ya?
No and I won't be called it again neither.
We've got Bill as well We have a gentleman called big bad Bill who
frankly compared to you John something of a sissy I feel
Would you like to join us on the stage because I know that you came specifically along because
you can actually fit into the other preset chair
Alright let's let's bring the other chair let's bring bill on as well.
I would imagine this is why widescreen television was invented precisely for moments like this.
Now you've got to be careful now.
Now what am I gonna do these two could snap me in half like a twig - you pansies...
Joking...
Anyway now listen now I want to speak briefly to you at the beginning I understand that
you don't want to talk about your background with Ronnie Kray and that's fine I think it's
been very well covered already I'm not interested in that but but this is what I am interested
in - could you to begin with run me through the circumstances of how you stepped into
that world was that a world that you were always a part of or is that something that
you stepped into when you became close with Ronnie - what exactly is is the story
The world I'm in now.
Well I guess because you're hanging out with kind of known kind of gangsters and criminals
and whatever and this is still the world that you circulate in.
Yes well when I was married to Ron obviously I've got to know those sort of people
so even after Ron's death they become my friends
Right what background are you from originally because you're you say you don't come from
that background you stepped into that world at first so where did you come from and how
did being in that will change your view of life
I was found under a bush, what do you think?!
I was just a normal kid In the East End right - in South London - right
and having stepped into that world and now writing about it how has that changed you
how are you how is that is life cheaper to you?
Is brutality kind of an easier thing for you to deal with?
Not really I'm a lady and ladies don't witness that sort of thing very often so you know
it was kept behind doors I'm I'm a lady so I don't say that.
But in the sense that you don't physically witness it yes but surely you know what's
going on I mean you're turning the other cheek you are aware of that surely how so how can
you justify... it sort of it shows the fact that it's going on is that not even an issue
for you would that not be in the I'm in the real world of course it happens
every us on the street that is what happens.
Right...
I wouldn't know... you wouldn't know because I'm a girl
I get winded by a heavy parking manoeuvre me
Alright let me ask you something now um no this this book that you've written is called
hard bastards and what you've done is you've interviewed - you've found 24 men real men
but apparently spoke to more and then you found the 24 hardest men you said these are
Britain's Hardest Bastards, and I believe that John you are one of the people in that
book is that correct?
Yes.
What do you say your job is on your passport what do you say that how do you how do you
identify yourself?
I'm unemployed.
Unemployed?
Unemployed.
Sso you say on the passport Oh fascinating and they they don't they don't
mind that but but now but what do you if you're discussing your life to
friends and stuff in a pub or something - what do you say you do what do you say your
occupation is?
I'm in security I'm in very high profile security.
I'd say you're in security my friend yeah.
High profile security all right let me ask you something though because clearly clearly
I am NOT hard and clearly I'm not giving that -- but look but is there any possible way
or in any possible world in which I might be considered
hard that you could see that there would be a hardness within me?
In Disneyland.
If you was in Disney you would be hard.
[APPLAUSE] Yeah I could push my way on to a few rides
I think now listen John now because we knew that you were coming on - apparently you know
these Pokemon cards, they're a very big deal they're a real craze at the moment.
Well, recently apparently the Merseyside Police have produced a set based on famous policemen
to keep them in with the kids.
Have you heard about that Mersey police have done their own kind of
trading card system I don't understand it so we - and I think this may displease
you - have produced these hard men cards and there's one for you big bad John...
and there's one for me and already I think the picture of you John is insulting you look
like some kind of California raisin or something we've turned you into there.
I'm not proud of it and I want you to know I had nothing to do with the graphic content
of these pictures and I will be whipping very hard anybody who has that I find out but nevertheless
- it's interesting because we did a comparison of you and me as if we hadn't already got
the joke Big back John neck girth 25 inches...
Big nose John neck girth 16 and three-quarter inches without cravat
Special powers big bad John the strength to split a coconut with just one tap of his signet
ring and signet I think is spelt incorrectly isn't that correct it's usually SI G isn't
it it's not like a little Swan ring you have there
It's SIG Uh, he's a pisstaker, inne'
I'm telling the truth!
If I was on the street, would you punch me out?
Where's my security - I want BBC security in here.
Bring em in.
They have mobile phones on their waists you know!
special powers big nose John can open Bridget Jones's Diary and turn instantly to the part
that made him cry.
Weight of jewelry big bad John 1.4 kilos That's not true it's nonsense weight of
big nose john on a crystal mood pendant and a brooch big bad John weakness not a flexible
not applicable big nose John weakness a robust Chardonnay and the songs of Irving Berlin
Do you think he should be carried out?
He's putting it off!
I am putting it off.
I don't want other men of your size touching me no.
It's my idea of... heaven.
Your books a big sellers aren't they they do well?
Yeah and because I was even I still found it
quite interesting I've got to say oh yeah yeah but in a sense that I wouldn't normally
read books about these kind of guys it does fascinate me but I have to say the psychology
of what's going on here is truly fascinating to me I like it
I like it in a kind of late review academic kind of chin stroking kind of way but I like
it nonetheless I thought it was really good
You're like a probation officer Am I?
Or a do gooder.
I am a do gooder.
Do you wear tank tops.
Ban the bomb badges?
No the bomb has been banned.
In what way do I resemble a probation officer it's just the way you talk and the way you
act and can you say more Not on here.
Why not?
You smarmy bastard [Applause]
In fact - that's going to be the title of her next book.
Smarmy Bastards.
You know I was big bad John before you showed up tonight mate.
Alright so now first of all can we thank our three
guests for coming on this evening they were Kate Kray, Big Bad John and Big Bad Bill.
(VOICEOVER) See the hardest thing for me was closing the show.
I still loved the recommended daily allowance we had it all for the asking
our floor managers the camera crew the VT guy everybody wrote along I had paper
bags filled with weak jokes - in the writers room I had a sugar bowl filled with coke next
to the autocue it didn't matter it didn't mean anything well I wasn't
funny I'd go out and steal jokes we ran everything we paid off Greg Dyke we paid off Jim Davidson
we paid off Matthew Amarillo everybody had their hands out everything was for the
taking and now it's all over That's the hardest part today everything is
different there's no action I have to wait around like everybody else
I can't even get decent BBC coffee Right after I got here I ordered a decaf latte
with whipped cream they gave me Mellow Birds over UHT milk
I'm an average nobody I get to live the rest of
my life like a schnook [Goodfellas Music]
5,4,3,2,1.
[Applause]
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