Film Courage: Matthew, what was your first film job? Matthew Miele, filmmaker: Film job that's a good question so I
jumped into it pretty boldly I guess because I studied it at Syracuse
Screenwriting and Film production, etc but you really learn theory, you don't
really learn the basics of how to do it as far as like you know onset experience.
So I was bold enough to just say I wanted to write a screenplay and make it
and direct it and it was kind of like I just jumped in and I wanted to be at
that place without kind of working as a PA at first or working as a grip or
anything it was I came in through actually music because music was my what
did they call a double major I guess and I was composing music for commercials
when I first got out of school so I had like this weird entry and the music was
what inspired me to eventually write a script and then I made that film I
directed it I raised the money i co-wrote it with a friend of mine from
Syracuse and we just did it and it was this crazy ride and I'm glad we did
because you know it was a story that was really close to us and we really wanted
to make sure we told it and the only way to really tell a story the right way
when you feel near and dear to it to me is to direct it yourself and even though
we had an uphill battle with the first time director thing and cast not coming
on board and just people kind of like you guys are in your mid-20s what are
you doing we all felt like this was the right way and I think the baptism by
fire of being unset and really learning and you know it was my first time on a
film set so it was very difficult to you know walk that tightrope of being you
know immersed with the crew for the first time as well as the talent and
just trying to like that out this was a narrative it was
yeah it was a thumb called everything's Jake that start Ernie Hudson who was
kind enough to star in it because you know he didn't know us from Adam and he
sat us down on a lunch out here I remember we flew out because he
responded the script and he's like you guys sure you want to do this it was
kind of like this you know is this possible like you have the money and
we're like no not yeah well we'll raise it don't worry and you know we were just
kind of hustlers at the time and he started calling friends of his like
Debbie Allen and Robin Givens to take part in it and we made the movie and you
know we were on the streets of New York in the dead of winter for four weeks but
it was about a homeless guy in New York so the sets were built so it wasn't like
we had to like do anything or expense that so we were able to do it all
outside and it just really worked out and the great ending to that was that we
made the film no one wanted it as with a lot of indie films I'm sure as thousands
of films are made and I you know only a select hundred or what five or six
hundred get to the theaters every year I think so this film was like you know
something we really wanted to get out there but no one was biting eventually
Ernie did this radio show Whoopi Goldberg she's and I said did you ever
see the film cuz she was saying oh you know everything's Jake and she goes no
you know I only watched the trailer I said well watch the film I gave her a
DVD I said you know it's a really special film over blah two weeks later
she brought earning on the view and then Warner Brothers eventually took the film
out not in theaters but it was like this DVD play that they did and it got out
there enough and it got us to our next film but we didn't want to give up on it
it's easy to kind of like say that film didn't work we'll shelve it but that was
something we wanted to like continue with that's a great story what was the
time frame between the view sort of airing and and the finish well that's
the the worst part of it which was we finished it in 99
and I think it didn't get a deal - like eight years later but I didn't want to
do another film until like that made it and I I didn't want to just you know say
okay well let's give up on it in a sense I mean I was able to do other jobs in
between and it's trying to figure out this business and to navigate it which
is there's no real rhyme or reason to it it's kind of like you can come in a lot
of different ways and I'm sure you've heard that from several people everyone
has a different experience but uh you know and I don't think you ever really
arrived it's kind of you just keep making your way and I feel like that's
kind of where I am right now when did you decide on documentary filmmaking
your first film is a narrative mm-hmm or did it sort of not really there wasn't a
decision you do an interest sparked for something so my thinking behind it was
so I did a second narrative called eavesdrop and then that had a very hard
time getting out there too so I was very discouraged because I was trying to
figure out well how am I gonna tell the stories I want to tell and then you have
this huge mountain to climb with raising money and the cast and you have a very
small amount of time to get it right with a feature cuz it's on like a four
or five week onset experience and there's such long days and I really was
discouraged with the process of storytelling and the feature narrative
however from those two directing gig because I got noticed for some writing
because I had written the scripts so I came out here and I was doing some
writing and I got a manager and I was working with an agency and I started
working with a couple of high-profile directors on different scripts and I was
helping to do a couple of things but ultimately I got discouraged because
with that you sometimes they're in turnaround a lot of things you don't get
credited if you work on something and you know you're in that development
thing and sometimes your work doesn't really pay off because you can be
working on something for so long it never gets made so then I had this
frustration point where I was like I just want to tell my stories like how
can I do this a lot easier in a sense and I'm a New Yorker in my heart and I
as a child used to come into the city and see the windows that
Goodman and a variety of different store fronts and I remembered that as a kid
and I used to look up at these windows and say wow that's like my first
approach and first encounter was storytelling and like a three-act
structure you could see within just one window and I just absorb that and then I
said to myself you know what I'd love to do a film on Bergdorf's because that was
my first encounter with this window or windows I approached them and they said
we don't allow filming and to do a whole feature would be crazy because you'd
have to buy the store out and film and it's Multi multi millions to even think
about it but then I said well let me look at your archive let me do a little
more research on the place and when they showed me their archive it was so thin
and I was like well you know you don't keep a formal archive like you know I'm
surprised it's not huge is a hundred years old and they said no I said well
let's do a project together let's you know I'll be for archived with
interviews and you know we'll figure it out together and I said let's do a
documentary and they said okay so for the next two years we were rolling
camera and you know you can greenlight your project like that without all the
money you need you know to get it done and also there's this protracted period
where you can work on something for a longer period of time at your own pace
and you don't have to have that really concentrated thing and then at that
moment and it was in like 2011 when I started to think about that and that's
when Doc started to really get hot and have this golden period which I still
think we're going through and I feel like storytelling and in a doc form is a
really refreshing approach if you really want to get your thing or film made and
out there because you can literally you know for a thousand two thousand bucks
have a camera start rolling and greenlight your own project it's really
about picking the right topic getting the people in it that you want to
interview or highlight and just make a compelling story and if you stitch that
all together successfully you can get something out there in a theatrical way
just as much as a feature narrative as these days I mean my last four Doc's all
went to theaters so I feel like and they were rated and it's like you know you
feel like you're doing it and in it but it was a
byproduct and a result of my frustration with the feature side so I'm kind of
like in the doc world right now and I've done about four and I'm about to do two
more that are already shot but I'm entering back into the feature world now
because I got attached to direct this film on Norman Rockwell to biopic on
that iconic artist so I'm really excited about that so I'm
kind of like entering back in but I feel better now because I've accomplished
what I needed to in the doc world and I feel like with that experience I'll
bring more to my directing prowess when I get on set and do that next thing what
mistakes would you say you made early on with filmmaking whether it was with
equipment you know timing whatever the biggest mistake I ever made
and it was a inadvertent one when I first was on set as a director I didn't
spend time with the crew and the reason I didn't was because I didn't want them
to suspect and find out that I didn't know much and I was inexperienced and I
was doing this like total fish-out-of-water like I had no clue
except for what I learned in school which but in school you do little videos
and you're not really directing a full-on feature so when the crew would
have lunch I was always trying to separate myself because I didn't want to
like let on that like like Oh what have you worked on before or you know
anything question like that I had no idea how to answer it but they saw it as
or at least my thinking I have no idea never asked them but I always felt like
they were a little like standoffish because they're like oh he doesn't want
to eat with us or you know he wants to spend time alone and I always felt like
that was it was the wrong impression I made obviously but again it was
inadvertent cuz I was trying to like protect myself from there you know more
investigative questions maybe about like if I had any background in this which I
didn't so I would always say and I still today would say you know if you're on
set and you're directing you should spend time with your crew because it's a
true collaboration and without all those voices coming in and
helping you to immerse yourselves in the story
you can't think it's this like you know I'm the only voice in this I'm the only
storyteller it's a variety of people who are gonna help you along the way and
they all have their own voice and creativity they're bringing to it so
that's that mutual respect across the board that I think is super important to
make sure that you know I always keep in the back of my mind and I know on my
next film I'll always you know really engage more
but it's so easy to get in your own head and to kind of you know just think and
brood and you know try to figure out how you're gonna do a scene and you feel
like you're in it alone sometimes because the producers are only going to
you when you're losing light and you're not making your day but I feel now that
I need to be a little more involved with how the crew is feeling and you know
have lunch with them and bring the actors in on those conversations and
everyone in it together rather than you know I think a rookie director mistake
is to think you're in it alone and that it's you against the world in a sense
and you kind of feel like if this doesn't go I fail which is true because
it's your name on it and you're not if you don't make your day and you go over
budget you could get fired or whatnot but I do think the voices on the crew or
super important to keep engaging and to involve at an equal level as far as
their creativity so that's an interesting take on perception so at
what point did it click for you that that could have been one of the issues
and then you sort of I never cured it okay I just did I was just that way on
that that first set and I tried to help it on the second set but I'm a victim of
my own like thoughts when I get really intense about how I'm gonna structure a
scene or I get you because I don't ever plan much I always try to make decisions
on the day of and I always try to react to what I'm
because things change all the time if you plan too much you're in for a rude
awakening because you get to a location and things always change so I always try
to wait until I'm there and then when I'm there I make decisions off the cuff
or a little more you know in a way that's keeping it fresh and then I
involve the actors in those decisions in the DP etc but I would probably try to
be a little more democratic and how I am reacting to things and my approach
because I don't have a shot list generally and I don't have you know a
lot of dialogue on how I'm doing certain things so I want to make sure the next
time I communicate a little better but as I said it's easy to get into your own
head with these things so what can you tell us about the history of the Carlyle
the Carlyle so the history goes back to about 1930 and it was built right on the
tail end of the 20s and that old boom and the roaring 20s and the good times
in New York and the real estate you know values totally going through the roof
and obviously it ended in a crash but the conception of the Carlyle and the
whole notion of it was born during that era so as it was being built things were
falling apart economically so there was this whole decision made by Moses
Ginsberg at the time who built it should we continue should we build it and the
decision was yes because they would already broken ground but then they
ended up they ended up losing it several months into their mortgage and you know
they they lost it right after they built it within a year so and I think New York
was in a real crisis then I mean the Empire State Building was erected at the
same time and it was called The Empty State Building for a decade because no
one was leasing office space so New York was in the throes of something quite
unique and status properties like The Carlyle
I think suffered during that time but eventually in the 40s and in the 50s and
then certainly in the 60s with JFK coming in there and really making it a
signature as far as you know staying there and you know Truman stayed there
but JFK had this sexiness and the glamour of jackieo and
they were a bit younger and they had Camelot and that whole thing was being
born not only in Washington but at the Carlyle as well so that really made it
this place that had this legendary status and this mythic quality so I was
always intrigued by that and you know I love old New York and I think the
Carlyle just represents all those different decades and the flavors that
you get and in all those years and I mean today it's a lot different but it's
holding on to certain aspects of it and a lot of staff was telling me about this
place has a patina about it there is a vintage quality to it and I was trying
to get to that essence and the heart of it with the film and I think I got in a
little bit and a little patch here and there but ultimately it was a tough
thing to mine because they also pride themselves on discretion so you have to
kind of figure that out as well sure but I like how you also interwove stories of
the staff and what they could tell and I thought it was interesting forgive me
the one gentleman's name and he was the the man who retired it was there at
white I think so right and he talked about how it was such a different
experience working there years ago and how the world had changed and his
position there now didn't feel the same and I thought that was an interesting
take on how things change over time you know etiquette changes obviously yeah
it's true sad actually it is and when he said it I was I felt it when he said and
I knew that like sometimes you hear when a line has said or spoken that you want
to make sure you get it in the film and you remember it when it comes time to
the edit and when he said that like things have changed and used to go to a
ballgame and people were dressed and you would go out on the sidewalk and people
dressed a certain way and they had respect for themselves and I'm not
saying that's fallen off but in New York there's definitely a relaxed quality
happening that I think is reflective of a lot of other areas and I think it
comes from a practical point of view like we don't have to wear fedoras and
suits and ties so much anymore but I think it's gotten a little too relaxed
so a place like the Carlyle and you see flip-flops coming in or you see
you know people in shorts are not respecting the fact that sport jacket is
needed in a certain place that whole culture and that etiquette and the
values there I think they're all falling off if not disappearing altogether and I
think that's what Dwight was bemoaning and you know he was a concierge there
for years and he he didn't say the carlyle changed as much as society was
changed didn't want to be in that position anymore to see it and witness
it keep falling off because it has now whether or not there'll be a renaissance
I have no idea well we get back to a place where there's like a certain
decorum again I don't know but if the Carlyle story and getting it out to
audiences makes an impact there makes any dent whatsoever like people want to
get dressed up again and have a martini I mean you can it's not stuffiness
people might misconstrue it with oh I have to get dressed up for that or
there's a certain social the social grace that you need when you walk in a
place like that I want them to feel that I want them to do that but when you're
there the experience is pretty body it's like a fun time it's like a rare thing
you've really never experienced before because even in the cafe there's like
this cabaret that happens which is a very unique thing and I think people
confuse it with just oh someone's singing songs but it's not it's the
stories in between there is you know a lot of body nough set happens in cabaret
and it's uptown so it's not like a downtown and feel it's this uptown place
in a stuffy neighborhood Upper East Side the Carlyle is a singular and such a
rare experience and I feel like the film kind of hints at that how did you
arrange all of the interviews I know you had interviews with you know Lenny
Kravitz and you know George Clooney well it took like four years to do this film
and the reason it took so long was because we were waiting for them to come
to the hotel it's not like we put a letter out and said hey will you do this
it was more about when are they coming can we talk to them while they're here
and then it was like the approach as well because he can't just go over to
him a lot like hey do you mind doing this so it
was a process that we did with the Carlisle because they have a certain way
they like to engage a guest and I didn't want to step on that so sometimes we
would send a personal letter from myself to the room just saying hey we're doing
this but no one was responding and year one of this was a total shutout it was
like okay I don't know what I'm gonna get because no one's saying yes but
finally George Clooney said yes because I don't know if there was a familiarity
there I had seen him on occasion I was introduced to him a couple times and
then finally through his publicist someone said his publicist someone said
yes he's willing to do this because he loves the hotel and it was you know he
does endorsements for different things but this was something he wanted to do
because he loves the place and he goes back to the Rosemary Clooney days when
he used to drive her around a tease and he just had this feel for the place that
I felt like was great for the film because he goes back further than I do
with it I go back to the 90s with her but he was back in the mid-80s when
Bobby sure it was really at his height and then when he said yes it starts to
steamroll with oh he did it so maybe I'll do it and then we really started
rolling with the cast as you've seen with I saw Wes Anderson duck his head
and Bemelmans one time and I asked the Carlisle does he come here as he stay
here and they said I don't know if he stays but he definitely has come here
before so we asked him really innocently through his people and he said
absolutely so he sat for us Sophia Coppola was shooting something there at
the time and we asked her she was more than willing everyone was really
gracious about it but I knew at the end of the day that the celebrities were
great and they were fun and that might be the commercial viability to get it
out there on a bigger level but the staff were the heart and I want to make
sure that they were the real stars of the film and to push them out a bit like
Danny the bellman and Dwight the concierge and Ernesto the doorman I knew
that and the elevator operators all those guys and
and the men and women who were behind the scenes I felt like I wanted to get
them out in the spotlight a little bit and even though some were reluctant by
year three or four they were like I'll tell you this story now I'll tell you
this one because they knew I wasn't doing a fly-by-night production and I
had the ability through other projects to support myself and to like let this
kind of be the one that just I did when things were available to me because
there's really no rush with it it's not gonna go anywhere and I knew I wanted to
get the flavor of it and that only can happen when you have time with it
so any kind of like short attention span to the hotel you're not going to
understand the place but now I do I thought you had a great balance between
sort of the heart of it and going into the kitchen and seeing the waiters kind
of scramble around but then you know letting them tell their story so so much
of the time it's just people see the uniform and they don't really see the
person behind it yeah and I love the story of the elevator operator that I
guess he did a play with Bruce Willis I mean that that's powerful right there
right yeah because you see the different paths these two take so Bruce was even
like the lowest part of the cast of the play I believe right and the elevator
operator was the lead it was yes and then he ends up being an elevator
operator and Bruce's big starts just the randomness of where life takes you and I
feel like all those small little stories the nuances inherent in each we're
enough like a lot of people are saying well where's the scandal or you know
where is the true information we want to learn I feel like I gave enough to let
your imagination go and kind of assume more about what's right past that what
they said like they gave us just enough and I feel like that was the tease that
I got while I was doing the film it was a constant tease like oh that's great
information I wonder what happened next kind of thing like this person got here
like the Royals when they arrived they gave us an exclusive moment in the lobby
with them but they wouldn't let us go up to the room or you know spend time with
them but again it's like what are you gonna learn from that that the
excitement was the arrival and the flashbulbs going off and then this
moment in the lobby when they're greeting the staff and he's
you know my mother stayed here is just why I'm here and the fact that it was
his first time in New York was nuts because he figured you know Prince's
traveling the world but that was his first visit to the city in the part you
said or someone was talking about how Steve Jobs Michael Jackson and Princess
Diana all rode up in the elevator together so you do you get that glimpse
of like wow what happens sort of at the top exactly and it's almost like you
almost you you like that feeling of being kept back a little yeah because it
makes it exciting it does and that's what that's a perfect example of you
want to imagine what was said in the elevator and then but I did learn it was
silent I mean no one spoke to each other and that's common in an elevator but you
get those icons in one spot and it's like there's no dialogue that takes
place but I kind of get it because it's like you're kind of just it's it's
that's the carlyle experience where you're beside titans of industries and
influential people and leaders and all walks of life and you just let it go you
just let it kind of glide by because to make any kind of attention or spotlight
on it is not the Carlyle Way so that's why I was so nervous doing this film
because I'm putting a spotlight on things I'm actually like you know
putting a camera on things but they were good sports about it I must say and it
took a while to convinced them but they eventually said yes how did you know
when to stop with gathering all the immigrants because you could have mean
you know and you could have gone on for years getting any more you can I kind of
knew because I wanted to hit a moment where we were editing as we went and I
knew because we were still gathering interviews up until I think two months
ago and oh wow yeah because digitally now you can just insert something you
know at the last minute but I felt like we had the story with the through line
of the Royals I feel like we had a really strong story with Lenny Kravitz
and Bobby short I wanted to make sure I had really a
the milestones present in the film as much as the pillars that made Dean
Carl out what it is and I felt like I got that and once I had like the Jackie
O stuff the Princess Diana stuff the Royals Bobby sure demoman's
once I had those properly told and the interviews were strong enough then I
knew like and if everything else was as flavor and filling so I felt like by
year four I was enough Matthew on your IMDB you're listed as a writer on all of
your films not just the narratives the
documentaries as well so why do you get writing credit I mean how much of your
filmmaking is actually written out and planned in terms of the documentary yeah
so the writing is more about how it all pieces together because I do 45 minute
to an hour interviews with everyone or I hope to and then when you're choosing
the lines that you're gonna use with the people this that whole puzzle that
you're putting together and the story you're telling with all the different
pieces that are coming together I mean you can create a story from a series of
interviews that the people who are contributing the line didn't think they
were gonna be part of but it all becomes a totally different thing when you're in
the editing room so I always feel like script wise at the end of or toward the
end of the film I always write it out as far as where everything landed and then
you have a real script I'm how this whole thing transpired so I feel like I
take a writing credit on those things because it's a true writing exercise and
a true you know figuring out of how you're gonna put it together because the
story is not something that is easily told especially when you have 100 100 or
150 interviews you're literally like okay how am i pulling this all together
am i weaving this so it's not just each individual story is transitioning to and
Steven Soderbergh who I interviewed one time he said filmmaking to him is the
most important thing is transition and he says you know when you're filming a
scene how you're getting to the next scene is the key and he's always looking
for that and I learned that when you do a documentary to the line that you need
going to the next part you're not thinking about it in the interview but
you're thinking about it in the editing room so you need all those moments of
departure or you know getting you to the next place and I feel like that's the
real writing at the challenge is okay we just told that great thing about Bobby
short but how are we getting it back to the present day or you know we talked
about Bemelmans bar and we're immersed in this bar right now by how are we
going back up to the Royal Suite to talk about that so it's like really figuring
out the departure points and I don't know I mean I don't know with a lot of
documentarians take writing credits but I like to because it's I feel like you
know 3/4 of my time was writing it out and saying okay all these people have
these lines how am I gonna you know take it to the next level in a sense and get
to that 90 minute mark of here's the story and this is how it was told with
these people these lines etc so I feel like the writing is is valid at that
point when you begin shooting did the film then take a different ending you
know I've heard from other documented filmmakers that you know they set out
with one story and then something happened in the course of the filming in
that sort of environment that drastically changed the end of the movie
did anything happen like that yeah we had several endings always on
different films you never know where it's gonna end up and I feel like that's
the fun of it too it's the same approach I take when I go to a narrative film set
I never plan and it's much to the distress of crew because they want to
know and they want to like structure things and you know editorially it's
tough because you're working with editors on a dock and they're like where
are we headed with it what's the three art or three act structure and I don't
know I mean I I like to do things kind of off-the-cuff in an interview as much
as I like to do it in the editing room so I think this film went through at
least 50 or 75 of like what is the ending because you
know you can end it on the Royals actually arriving we're leaving you
could end it on you know some of the that Bobby Stewart passing away but it's
also like do you want to end on a down note or an upbeat note do you want to
end on an emotional note a laugh something about the legacy or the
history or about the future so it was all those things kind of wrestling you
know together to figure out what's going to happen with this film and again I
love not knowing I like very much oh we just had that great interview let's
insert this line here but then that line here makes all these things change it
pushes everything down so you don't like is that our ending are we moving that up
to the top and I my thing is if you have a great story that you know you're
telling like the carlyle it's a very fluid thing so you can place things
anywhere and as long as each individual piece of it it's compelling I mean you
can really have it anywhere it's not because you the audience is going to
react differently to everything so an ending to certain audience members is a
beginning to others in a sense you know what I'm saying it's it's really not
like writing a feature script where you have to have that strict or a little
more strict you know guiding principle of what's first what's second what's
third as far as the three act with a documentary I feel like there's a
randomness to it and it worked I think for this one of the past ones I've done
I think you said earlier the documentaries are kind of this is their
their time right now what do you think now so I think because the with the
streaming that's happening they're able to get out there to a bigger audience
and there's also this notion of a Doc series that's been popping up and very
popular now where you can tell longer form things that they stretch you're
like HBO's doing things that stretch over a few nights
I know Netflix and other streamers are doing things they're calling doc series
where it's like four to six episodes of certain subjects but I do think that
reality these days is somewhat more interesting than what fiction can even
dream up I mean there's so many cool things happening in the world that you
kinda have to put a magnifying glass on it and really examine it and to me we're
living in such an amazing time where there's all these compelling things
every day and you know there's there's a certain thing that you don't want to
really chase a headline because it'll be irrelevant tomorrow but if you look at
certain things that are hit upon sometimes like the Carlyle Hotel where
you continue to see stories happen there you continue to see history unfold those
are the kind of things you want to grasp onto so you to me they're not irrelevant
for historical reasons but they're constantly current so that's why I feel
like film like this something something will happen with the streamers and how
accessible it will be to everyone eventually
besides the pockets that the theaters are appealing to audience wise because I
just feel like it's always going to be in the news in a sense they're always
gonna be something that occurs there and that's just the magic of the place so
that's why I feel like a film like this will appeal and be popular
similar with Bergdorf's that happened I think there is a this this fashion
hunger out there people just can't get enough of it and when that film came out
in 2013 I think it was at the height I feel like it's fallen off a little bit
but and people are kind of getting over saturated with it but I don't know Docs
to me I mean it they're selling so I know there's a market place for them and
they're selling at a decent enough level where you can continue making them and I
think that's exciting for any filmmaker to continue just telling your story and
you know if you have bitters on your content you can't be in a better spot
because you continue to do what you do so I feel like that golden period is you
know you don't you never know you can't really recognize it when it's happening
but I think when we look back on this decade for I would say from 2010 to
probably 2020 will be like wow that was an amazing moment where we were telling
the amazing stories plus we came out of recession or supposedly we've come out
of one during that time and so it's a
relatively inexpensive way to get a film made if you're doing it in piecemeal it
definitely is and you know what's so interesting session is so the Big Short
comes out and it kind of examines what happened there and I love filmmaking
like that - it's like the biopics and the studies the journalistic studies of
things like all the President's Men and spotlight like those to me or if you do
them right they feel like a documentary almost so I feel like we're in that mode
of storytelling right now more than ever where even Hollywood is on to the notion
of let's tell real stories let's tell what what's happening but the
balance is of course that you're in the Marvel world you know that there's
there's a I feel like the indie scene and the ones that are the more renegade
pictures are the ones telling those real stories but they're balanced well with
this whole Marvel Universe in Star Wars where it's this imaginative fiction in
sci-fi etc where we're really getting a great blend and I feel like you know as
I said when we look back on it will be like wow that was a really great moment
a lot of people but Mon the 70s are over and that storytelling is not happening
anymore or you know they I think it was 66 to 76 people look at and the 80s had
all those comedies right but I don't know I feel like right now we're having
a really great moment and we'll look back on it and say wow that was that was
terrific to be a part of so we have some viewer questions that have come in one
of which is from matilda david and by the way hi Matilda thanks for asking in
a documentary how do you balance between a list of info conversations etc you
want shot and opportunistic events going on in real time how important is it to
you to make your documentary cinematic / visually appealing I think I'm always
looking at a theatrical release on these things I think documentaries can
sometimes be shot for a streamer or television I think PBS is a great home
for docs HBO obviously but we're always concentrating on because our last four
Doc's have gone theatrical so we're always looking at a bigger presentation
and a bigger scope so I'm always looking for that visual appeal I
think our interviews should look really gorgeous and I feel like you know you
want to have really lush backgrounds you want to have things Carlyle was easy
because we are shooting in Suites or in Bemelmans or we had such great
backgrounds and you know obviously if you put a movie star in front of that
background you're having even more lush visuals but that is easy to get so
seduced by and like you know you can lay on a shot and lay on someone saying it
but is he really giving or she giving you the information that you need to
educate the audience on why you're telling the story in the first place so
there's a lot of pitfalls there there's a lot of easy traps like with Bergdorf's
too it's like you put a fashion designer in Bergdorf's and they spend millions of
dollars on the backgrounds of those department stores to seduce the buyer so
when you put it on camera you're getting that same can't the visual candy and I
look at in the editing room and I'm like god I really love how that looks but is
that really what the story is about so it's really a tricky dance and she's
correct and the fact that you have to really you know walk that tightrope of
figuring out what's staying and what's going and sometimes it's a combination
where you have to kind of serve both and that's that's what happen with the
carlyle where it was so beautiful sometimes to look at but we had to make
sure we were not only entertaining but informing and I think that's the key a
lot of a lot of documentaries and documentarians inform without the
entertainment aspect I feel like if you're telling a story that's supposed
to be out there as far as we're munching on popcorn while while watching it and
paying a ticket price I think you're gonna want more than just something as
fact you want something as fun too and maybe I'm wrong in that I feel like but
I don't feel like it's so serious journalistically if you're releasing it
in a theater it should be a combination to me because you know when you go to
the theater you're not necessarily looking to get so immersed in something
so hard-hitting I think there's another
place for that 60 minutes New York Times wherever but if you're releasing a story
theatrically you better have both I think we had beautiful b-roll as well
yeah fifty dollar orange juice it was a beautiful be Rosa last question here and
then we'll wrap up the question came in from the viewer B song Taiwo and forgive
me a B song if I'm saying your name incorrectly hello by the way
is it a good idea to skip the film festival circuit and go directly to
online distributors slash Airlines to sell distribution rights so film
festivals for my own personal view on it if you don't have distribution a Film
Festival is a good place to go to try to get it especially a high-end Film
Festival I think there's only a certain tear that distributors actually attend
in order to get your work out there and I think the obvious ones are Toronto
Sundance you know etc there's probably five or six in the world that matter
other film festivals because they're a dime a dozen in a lot of cities they
don't you will go spend some money to get in them actually travel to go to
speak at them or you know the hotel expense etcetera but you're not gonna
sell your film because the distributor won't be there to see it they really
only there's only like twenty distributors really that are out there
that matter that can actually get your work to a place where you get it to the
right audience and they're only going to certain festivals so to me if I already
have distribution I usually won't bother with a festival and left it unless it's
a true marketing play where you're hitting Toronto or Sundance or something
where you're you know getting some buzz off of it but as far as dude getting a
distributor if it's not at a top tier I wouldn't bother applying that might be a
slam on festivals in general I'm not saying that it's always fun to get
festivals populated with great content but if your purpose is to sell it you
have to be really picky on where you debut because a lot of festivals want
you to premiere and just one or there's so you know I think even the
Hamptons I sold the film in one time but it's tricky because you have to choose
the right ones and there's only like I would say seven that matter
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