We just wanted to get a sense of, what do you think the big issues are facing Australia
at the moment?
Um, definitely fracking, um, also the indigenous community, um, refugees.
Um, there's just a lot.
Um, yeah, definitely I guess, with just, um, rep- representation of indigenous people in
Australia, um- With regards to immigration, uh, do you feel
it's too low, too high, just about right?
Um, I feel like it's about right, but I feel like the representation isn't there.
Um, I don't feel like a lot of Australians are kind of, educated in what's happening
with refugees or immigration in general.
So, what would you like to say to Australians to educate them about those issues?
Um, just, I guess, it's a big one, just listening and showing empathy.
Um, definitely listening to other people's stories.
Um, uh, I don't know, I guess.
But the refugees are very expensive to the Australian taxpayer as a whole.
Like they tend to be a net consumer of government services compared to taxpayers.
What's the case that you would make for Australians as to why their taxes should go up, or their
debt should go up, and their consumption of public resources should go up, in return for
what?
Mmm.
That's a big, that's a big one.
I personally don't feel like it affects the tax ... refugees don't really effect tax in
general.
I feel like there's a lot of room for everyone and a lot of resources.
But, it's just not, um, what's the word, um ... shared evenly, I guess.
Do, do you think that the refugees don't cost money?
Um, I feel like every person costs money.
I just feel it's not this extreme situation.
Like this extreme perception that we have with letting people in to the country.
Well, but some people pay taxes and we would assume that the refugees would be paying less,
if anything, in taxes.
Yeah.
At least for the first little while.
Yeah, definitely.
But ... I don't, I don't know what the question is.
Well, the question is, when it comes to ... it is gonna cost more for Australians and so
on, and, uh, what do you think they would get in return?
Um, Australians would get in return?
Yeah, yeah, for the refugees.
From refugees.
Um, I don't, I don't think it's like, a physical thing.
Um, I guess it just ... I don't know.
Um, sorry, I'm so put off.
No, no.
That's fine.
Listen, I really, really appreciate your time.
Yeah, I'm just like, yeah.
Yeah.
No, thank you.
It's a good question though, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean ... it's tough to answer.
Yeah, yeah.
Definitely.
Thank you very much for your time.
Appreciate it.
Have a good day.
Hannah, I'm Stefan.
So, we are just in here and we just wanted to know what you think is the biggest issue
facing Australia at the moment, in terms of politics.
Well, I guess it always is equality.
Equality, how?
Uh, that you know, everybody has the same, um, sort of, standard of living and, and opportunities.
And do you think that there's a bigger gap between rich and poor at the moment?
Or is it getting better?
Uh, no.
I definitely think there's a bigger gap.
Do you think that bringing in a lot of immigrants who maybe don't have skills, don't speak English,
and so on, is that increasing, do you think, or decreasing the gap?
Um, I think that this country was founded on immigrants, so it's not really fair for
us to say that people from other countries can't come here, because, um, that's, that's
how we were founded, so, it's- Yeah.
... like, like me as a white woman, I'm like, we're quite privileged to be here, but my
ancestors obviously, came and stole this land in...
Ah, so the argument is that because white people stole the land from the indigenous
populations, that you can't ever say no to people who want to come to Australia?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
How many people in the world do you think would like to come and live in Australia?
Like when you think of like, India and, and you know other places where they're really,
really poor, how many people in the world ... that's like six billion, seven billion
people in the world.
How many of them do you think would like to come live in Australia?
Well, I couldn't possibly put a number on it.
But it would be a lot, right?
A lot.
It would be billions and billions of people who'd want to come and live --
I think we're very lucky.
I think we're very lucky, and I think, um, we have a lot of opportunity, and we have
a lot of land, um, that is ... also a lot of land that isn't inhabited --
Yeah, yeah.
And it's not being used for anything, so- So, if you were in charge of government, let
me ask you this.
If you were in charge of government, what would be your upper limit for the number of
people who could move to Australia, from the world, in, in any year?
I couldn't give a number because I, I don't know how many people ... I don't know, I couldn't
give you a number.
Well, right now it's about 190,000 coming in a year in a population of what, 20, 25
million or so, 25 million I think.
So, would you increase that?
I think yeah, I think we should let more people in, definitely.
And- But I think that we need to treat them better
when they arrive.
How so?
I don't think that, um, I mean, I'm a primary school teacher, uh, by trade.
Um, I don't think that it's fair that children are separated from their parents, who are
refugees.
And I don't think that refugee camps have, um, the resources and what we don't provide
refugee camps with the resources to accommodate people properly.
So- Right.
And as a primary, sorry to interrupt, as a primary school teacher do you teach the children
that the land was stolen and it's not particularly legitimate for them to be here?
Well that's two different things.
So the land could have been stolen but it is still legitimate for them to be here.
Well, I mean, I think that, that from the ... in, in terms of indigenous Australians,
that that is something that, um, we definitely need to still work on.
Um, this is weird, um, but in the same, same sentence, there, there are, there is enough
space to have other people.
Yeah, I think the indigenous- I don't ... I'm sorry, I don't think-
The indigenous- But-
The indigenous thing that I'm talking about is taking their land from them, right?
And not giving them rights to, like, sacred places that, you know, was part of their original-
Well, they were hunter gathers though, they weren't particularly land owners in the way-
Yes, they were.
... that Europeans were, right?
Yes, they were.
Yes, they were.
Yeah.
Right, right.
Well I really thank you for your time, I appreciate that.
Sorry.
That's really helped me to understand.
Thank you.
So we're just trying to sort of understand a little bit more about Australia and Australians
and so on, do you think that Australia is a White Supremacist nation?
Do you think there's a lot of white privilege here, or do you think it's more egalitarian?
Uh, yeah, yeah.
Well, I come from Brazil so compared to Brazil, that it like, um, has more black people, I
would say there has white privilege for sure.
I already had a few cases that, um, well, I'm a black girl so.
Um, yeah, but it, yeah has a white supremacy.
Especially like, uh, when you come people from the towns, I would say.
Like, uh- You said something happened to you, like you've
had some incidents with it?
What happened?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, um, I don't know, like, uh, do you know dreadlocks?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so I did dreadlocks and they fire me at work.
For the dreadlocks?
Yeah.
Is that legal?
And do you think that there's more white supremacy in Australia or in Brazil?
Uh, yeah, in Australia for sure.
Yeah, because like here, they comes, uh, I think from the UK generation, so, uh, and
then because of the aboriginals they of course would ... like if they don't have the culture
of the aboriginals for example.
And back home we have the aboriginals culture for sure.
Do you think ... So you say that the British people, would they be more racist as a whole?
Uh, no it's not that they're the British.
I'm saying that the culture comes from, from like, a British culture that comes to Australia,
so it's not like aboriginal culture so, uh, especially for what happened in Australia.
Uh, you guys don't have like, Australia doesn't have the, the culture of the aboriginals so
is, uh, less, less, um, I don't know, you guys don't understand what is your, like Australia
doesn't understand much, what exactly the culture it came from, from the aboriginals.
Do you admire the aboriginal culture?
Yeah, yeah.
I completely- And what do you like about it?
I don't know, the music, the food, the rituals, the religious-
You know that in a lot of aboriginal cultures one of the punishments for women who disobeyed
the laws was mass rape?
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know- I'm going to assume that's not one of the
things that you admire.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Yeah, yeah, well it's like, uh, as any culture, we did some mistakes.
Australia killed the aboriginals, and, uh, not because of these Australians a bad country,
it's just like, uh, sometimes they can not understand
What draws you to Australia ... sorry to interrupt, if you s- for you, Australia has more white
supremacy than Brazil, what is it that draws you to a country where you feel that you may
be more oppressed?
Um, well, I don't understand your question, sorry.
I asked ... so you say that there is more white privilege or white supremacy in Australia
as opposed to Brazil, but you moved to Australia, it seems odd if there's more white supremacy
that you would move to Australia.
Oh, yeah, yeah of course.
But it's like, uh, I didn't move to Australia because those things, like and I didn't expect
to have those problems here, I thought that there was a really well culture that like
everyone is welcome, and like, to come here and see, for example the LGBT, uh, like, uh,
still having problems with things like not approved the gay marriage, or Australia, about
the aboriginals don't bridge the ... uh, for example I was living in, uh, Miller's Point
and, uh, over there they have, uh, the aboriginals houses, and now they took it off for all the
aboriginals and the poor people.
To, to put like new people there for a house.
So, uh, this is fair, you know, like, they live there their entire life and one day Australia
give to them this house and now they, they took it, took it back, so-
Do you think there's a- They're taking it all for the, the, the privileged,
from the aboriginals.
Do you think that there could be a time when the debt is paid?
No, no I don't think that they- Goes on forever?
No, yeah.
(laughs) It should never end, like it should never
end.
(laughs) yeah, yeah.
Our grandchildren's, grandchildren's, grandchildren should still be paying tens of billions of
dollars a year to the aboriginals?
Yeah, uh, no, like, uh, I don't know, like need to change the cultures, it's not about
paying, it's about accepting- No it is kinda, 'cause lots of money goes
from the whites to the aborigines right?
Uh, yeah, yeah, of course.
Should that have to go on forever?
Or should that ever end do you think?
Uh, uh, actually need to analyze the cases because like, uh, back home we have quotes,
but it's like, it's not fair as well, because like, you, you pay the University for the
aboriginals, and you pay for the black people.
And like sometimes they have money and they have everything they need, you know.
Like, so there's actually a case to analyze in each to see what is the gaps?
Mmm.
In, in the aboriginals if they have the support, where is missing the support, is money that
they're gonna help, do they need like a school for them?
Yeah, yeah.
Like, because is actually like, no money going to them because like, at home we have money
come to the aboriginals but it's not enough.
But I'm sure that here in Australia is not the case.
Like you have money to, to pay the aboriginal but they need like, uh, it's a random.
All right well thank you very much for your time, I really appreciate it, it's most enjoyable.
Thank you.
Uh, thank you so much for taking the time today, we just wanted to know what you think
the biggest issues are in Australia these days.
Oh, okay.
No pressure, just go.
I think one of the biggest problems is probably,
uh, racism, and the stereotypes that are associated with that.
I feel like a lot of people kind of just see from the outside, um, especially for me, like
I grew up in the west, and now moving into, um, I guess, into the city and into the inner
west, you can see a whole, uh, cultural difference.
Um, I guess because of the lack of multiculturalism in the city and I guess the high schools that
were around here.
Um, like going ... in the west we had ... it was obviously very multicultural and, um,
yeah it's just interesting to see people my own age especially, and just like the kind
of lack of, like, cultural sensitivity and awareness.
Right.
So, racism is one of these words I always have trouble understanding-
Right.
'cause a lot of people use it in a lot of different ways.
Right.
So what's your definition?
I think it's a contextual thing.
Um, I think it ... as long as someone is offended by the outcome of something you've said, it's
completely valid if they, kind of accuse you for being racist or making a racist comment.
Oh, okay so if I say, like if I'm offended by something like white privilege-
Yes.
Then whoever uses the phrase white privilege is racist?
I would say so, I mean like, uh, or even in the context say if someone of a particular
race isn't present, and there's no one, I guess, to out you, in that situation, that
it doesn't mean that it's not, like- But people can be offended unreasonably, right?
So how do you know if the offense is reasonable or not?
I mean, that's the problem then, it's always, um, like predisposed.
And also, I'm also concerned ... I'm sorry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm also concerned that if we say that to be offended is, is a big problem, that we're
kind of giving a big tool to people that pretend to be offended to then cause trouble, rather
than who are genuinely offended.
Oh yeah.
That's definitely right.
I feel like for me, I always would put priority to minority groups I guess.
Um, maybe that's my ... Oh like the whites in South Africa?
Yeah, I guess so.
'Cause they're the minority right?
They're the minority group, yeah.
Yeah.
Um- Do you think that, uh, being in the minority
gives you kind of a leg up in terms of cries of racism?
In other words, do you think that if you are the majority, you, uh, are always racist in
a disagreement with a minority?
Always racist?
Yeah.
I mean well, that just comes from you just not being able to understand where they're
coming from.
So then being the majority, you can't place yourself into, uh, what a minority has seen,
or what they've been through.
So that again, that would apply in any context as well.
Right, now with regards to immigration, would you say that immigration to Australia running
about just a little under about 200,000 a year, do you think that's too low?
Do you think that's about right?
Do you think that should be higher?
I think it should be higher.
Why's that?
Uh, well coming from a family, an immigrant family, and a family where, um, my parents
came here fleeing a war.
From where?
From Iraq.
Ah, yeah.
Okay.
Wait, the war?
The 2003 invasion?
Yeah.
My sympathies for that by the way.
Yeah, so that's what they were fleeing, and I can say that like, my family and extended
family, contributing to, um, the community here as much as anyone else is.
But then people wouldn't really know that.
Like when I talk or converse with my friends, they would be like, all taken back by that
'cause they think I might be like, loud and proud about it.
But like no, we're completely- But there are a lot of immigrants and refugees
who aren't contributing in a net sense- Yeah.
... to the Australian economy.
I mean well like that's, there'll be many factors to that, that apply to, um, you can
even say they're full of low ... like I came from black town, low socioeconomic area, you
could say that the white majority as well there, weren't contributing to economic status
there as well.
Yes, but white as a whole are net taxpayers, so ... in, in Australia.
You can always find pockets of differences.
Yeah.
Well let me ask you this, so about 190,000 at the moment, where do you think it should
be ideally.
Like if you were in charge of Australia- Yeah.
You got to set immigration policy, where would you put it?
Uh, I mean, we should be looking at different countries.
I think there should be a kind of standard uphold.
I'm not really sure about the statistics on that.
Just not, oh, do you think it should be double, triple, from where it is now?
Double.
So, close to 400,000?
Yeah, 300-400.
Do you think that 500,000 would be too high?
I don't think it would be too high, but- What number, I'm just curious.
What number would be too high?
Oh.
'Cause you know, there's only a certain amount of infrastructure and schools and healthcare
and dentistry.
Yeah, that's true.
Like, what is the number that's too high?
Well I'm just thinking about the context of, um, people fleeing like, war right now and
how I don't think we've done much to help them.
And even in, um, just our offshore, like we're ... stuff happening in Manus Island, like
they should be, I think they should be brought into-
I still need a number, if you don't mind.
What's your top number?
Oh, we'll go 400, double now.
So 400,000?
Yeah.
So, anything over 400,000 would be bad?
I don't think it would be bad, I just think, you know, I was giving a number. Yeah, yeah, that's fine.
Yeah.
So over 10 years, so that's 4,000,000 people, right?
Out of a population of 25,000,000 people.
Yeah.
So you know, you got like 20% over 10 years, and do you think that should grow with the
population?
Be 500,000, 600,000, year after year?
I think it should reflect what's happening in the world at the moment.
Yeah.
Do you think that other countries other than white countries, should be required to take
in refugees?
Because, you know, Saudi Arabia doesn't, Yemen- Yeah.
That's true.
Like other countries don't.
Why do you think it's only white countries that should take in the refugees?
Because we're coming from a place of privilege, um, we've kind of already set that up, I mean,
um, in terms of Saudi Arabia, uh, uh Saudi Arabia, um-
So if we were a dictatorship, we wouldn't have to take anyone in.
So being a democracy means we have to take everyone in.
Well people, people want to come here, is the thing.
Well of course they do.
I don't think people want to go to like a dictatorship.
Oh no, lots of people wanna get, no lot's of people wanna go to Saudi Arabia, there
are tons of guest workers in Saudi Arabia, they'd love to stay but they're not allowed.
So do you think that white countries are more free and desirable for people because of just
privilege, or do you think it was fought for and bled for and, an you know, we fought against
the kings, the aristocrats, the priests and someone, to try and make a free society, do
you think it's just random privilege or do you think historical will that made the white
countries more free and desirable?
I mean, I don't think I have a sense of, um- 'Cause if you'd of said privilege then-
Yeah.
All white countries have to take in everyone around the world forever.
Now when whites become a minority in their own country, do you think they'll be well
treated?
No, 'cause I don't think that would work anyway.
So why would whites wanna become a minority in their own country?
I don't think anyone wants to become a minority.
But that, the, the positions that you, I'm just giving you the larger-
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The positions that you have would result in whites becoming a minority I their own country.
I mean like- Look how it's working in South Africa, right?
That'd be interesting because, um, coming from a minority myself-
You fled being a minority in Iraq, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So why would you want ... do you think there would be any sense or reason for whites wanting
to become a minority in their own countries?
No, but it would just be interesting for the fact that, um, I guess people who will never
understand or never will understand what it's like to be a minority, to come from an immigrant
family.
But it's bad, right?
It's bad.
I wouldn't wish that- So why would white's, why would white's want
to become- On anyone.
(laughs) But you are wishing it, you are wishing it
upon the white's in Australia by wanting these huge immigration policies, you are wishing
it for the white's in Australia and you're saying it's a terrible thing to happen.
Well, I just think right now in this political climate, uh, they should have more things,
um- Who?
We should have, as a white country with lots of privilege, and, and a democratic nation
with um- It's not privilege though, is it?
I mean white countries who've fought for ... just like all other countries.
Yeah.
It didn't just ... it's not like God's beam of light came down and just gave these wonderful
gifts to white countries.
I mean, we don't really wanna go into where how Australia was fought for, so, yeah.
You, you do don't you?
The aborigines- Well now, if you're talking about that, then
I don't think that's just at all.
So the aborigines who were a minority in their own country when the whites came, how did
that work out for them?
Yeah.
Well nowhere near, yeah.
Badly.
Yeah.
So if it was bad for the aborigines to be minorities in their own countries and to be
harmed, isn't it also bad then for whites to be minorities in their own countries and
be harmed?
Yeah, but, I don't ... it's just not how it's going to work, it just never-
That's not an answer, you know that.
... will work like that.
That's not an argument.
It's just, it's just how everything's ever worked out.
Okay, so let's say, let's say that Muslims become a majority.
Yes.
In, I mean, with Iraq right.
Let's say the Muslims become a majority in Australia.
Yeah.
How do you think that's going to work out for the Christians?
See, it's such a hot debate, they have to send the fire engines.
Okay, so, in that, I would say if you go to a nation where it's a Christian majority,
what are the implications of that?
You mean for Muslims?
Yeah.
Muslims are allowed to practice their religion in Christian majority countries.
Exactly.
Are Christians allowed to practice their religion in Muslim majority countries?
In other words, lots of mosques are being built in Europe, do you think a lot of Churches
are being built in Saudi Arabia?
No I don't think there's a Christian majority though.
I know, so what that means is that if you have a Christian majority, you can have a
mosque, but if you have a Muslim majority, often times you can't have a church.
So if Muslims become a majority in Australia what's going to happen to the Christians do
you think?
And why would they want that?
Well I honestly think nothing would change.
You think nothing would change?
Yeah.
So you don't think Muslims want to impose Sharia Law in countries where they become
majorities?
No, I don't think that, no.
Do you have any example of a history, a country in history where Muslims gained a majority
where they didn't impose Sharia Law.
I'm just going off my personal like, experiences and personal relationships with other Muslims.
Yes.
All right, well I really, really appreciate your time.
Thank you so much.
It was a great chat.
Thank you, no worries.
Thank you.
Well thanks so much for taking the time.
Hi.
So you were watching an interview I did earlier- Yes I was.
... and I think I may have gotten a little bit of dagger look.
What do you call it in Australia when you're like, looks could kill?
Um, the stare of a magpie.
The stare of a magpie, all right.
Do you wanna give me one, like what were you looking at me as?
Ohh okay, that's chilling.
All right, so what is it that you didn't like about what I was saying?
You were talking about white, like whites being a minority in Australia.
I mean like, it's obvious we're colonizers, like…
So does that mean numer...
Does that mean numerically you can't become a minority?
It's like, I just don't see the world that way, I don't know, like, I am, I see myself
as a minority because I'm not solely white, I'm a person.
And I have ... I come from the love tribe of the world.
You come from the love tribe of the world?
Yes.
Do you think that's a majority tribe or a minority tribe these days?
I don't see a distinction.
Right, so do you think that immigration should be as much as Australia could possibly handle?
Like there's billions of people who wanna live in Australia.
about immigration, it's like the most complex thing.
It is and it isn't.
There is plenty of land in Australia.
Yes, okay, but there's infrastructure too right?
'Cause most of the people that immigrate to Australia wanna live in the cities, right?
Which means less- Not necessarily.
I know the majority of them do wanna live in the cities.
Like, they don't come from, from India to go live in the Outback right?
There's enough people in the world needing a place to live for people to start to build
their own new towns again.
You know, everyone just wants the new town feeling don't they?
And we live in Newtown, they just want the new town.
Now, let me ask you this though.
So right now about 190,000 people coming into Australia every year.
Do you think that's too low?
Um, look you just like, you just asked me questions about immigration to do with like
... I guess your angle is that it is too ...
No, no, don't try to read my mind, just tell me what you think.
Should it be higher than two, a 190,000, should it be lower, is it about right?
Um, Australia should be wide open to, um, whoever needs to escape, uh, difficult conditions
that they're living in to come to a country that's kind of free.
All right, so, would, would you say a million, two million a year, if, if-
I'm not gonna give numbers, I'm just saying- But more.
I don't know.
Now what if those people came from Muslim countries?
What if they were majority Muslims, do you think that that would be any challenge for
you?
I, I'm not, like, there is no challenge, it's diversity, biodiversity.
Biodiversity?
Do you think that Islamic Law or Islamic practices would have any challenge for your lifestyle?
No.
You don't think that Muslims have any problem with your lifestyle?
Oh, fuck off, I'm done with it.
I guess not.
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