When I was just four four and a half years of age I suddenly realized that I
don't know anything I don't know anything means I don't know anything at
all to such an extent if somebody gives me a glass of water
I would be simply staring at the water for hours on end so if I saw a leaf I'm
just staring at a staring at it for five six hours I sit up in my bed and I'm
staring at the darkness for the entire night
my dear father being a physician things that I need psychiatric evaluation
you also beginning to think
so that girl it's a absolute pleasure to be with you today I have a I have a
large audience I have a mic I have no time limit I have not been on air for
three months I stopped they told me to have a conversation with
you and there are some of my guests who come on my program who have been
probably missing this it's wonderful to be with you it's I I have spent some
time with you one on one in the past we've had conversations the one thing
which I have always found about you is that you're you're so normal
you're so that I mean so you also see
this is I do a news program you're turning this to an entertainment show
can I please proceed you're a wonderful person because I find you straight I
find you direct I don't find you pretentious I think you speak so much
common sense you say so many deep things in a very understandable way which
explains your popularity and why so many people have turned up this evening to
listen to you I was told that the theme of rotary has been success service and
spirituality we'll try and start off by talking about that and you can take it
forward from them what is more important success service or spirituality choose
one of them if you're
whether you do spirituality or service you want success in that also you want
to be successful because the very purpose of any human activity whether
it's something small that you do or something large that you do something
very simple as hitting a ball you want to be successful you don't want to do it
in a goofy way even if you blow your nose and want to throw the tissue into
the bin you want to be successful I'm saying something so silly also you want
to be successful the big
or human activity this means
buddy I'll say you're doing things
you're what happens when a person is individually successful but at the cost
of others I I personally often think that people turn to spirituality as an
alternative to their own success because they feel guilty about their own success
and want to make up for it through spirituality let's understand what is
spiritual process if you are thinking in terms of spiritual process means you
look heavenward know this has been cultured these things we've picked up in
the last few centuries otherwise it did not exist in this country of looking up
Oh per wallah doing things this is a huge problem
which I am trying to change dramatically now if little things go wrong in your
life you find one little person there and think it's because of him you big
things go wrong in your life you find that big guy there and you think it's
because of him this guy's absent it's time to bring this guy into account
he's been black you know unaccounted man for too long small things this guy big
things that guy what about this guy it is time my endeavor is to move people
from religion to responsibility because spiritual process means this what you're
referring to a spirit is that which is the basis of your body when I say that
which is the basis of your body you were not born like this you came it's such a
small one and now you become like this if you put a banana into this it becomes
the same kind of body if you put a chapati into this it becomes the same
body so there is an intelligence and a dimension within us which builds you
from within how how can any human being no life without addressing this
dimension
what is sitting in the hood right now an advertisement about the leather about
the woodwork systems does it in print work that you just live with
your body and you work and leather without taking if you want success very
normal for human intelligence to question because you see people dying
every day somewhere or the other okay when I fall dead what beyond this body
what before this body what is it not a very normal question because of this now
it looks like somebody has to guide you to a spiritual process if you bring up
your children without a single advice if you're capable of that it's very
difficult believe me you know when when my daughter was just three and a half
months old she was traveling with me one hand on her and my right leg is always
full down and I drove across the country and she grew up like this with me till
she's five till she went to school every day we are in a different home staying
with all kinds of people everybody wants to teach us something I said one rule is
nobody will teach her anything no ABC no one two three no mary had a
little lamb because I don't care whether mary had a lamp or not so you won't
believe nobody thought or anything by the time she's 18 months she fluently
speaks three languages because she's all yours
cuz nobody talks to her she just grasps everything around her because nobody is
teaching her anything and you grew up like this and when she
was 12 13 years of age one day she came up to me she just came back came back
from school disturbed about something there and she said you're teaching
everybody so many things you're not telling me anything I said well I don't
do anything unsolicited here you come now let's see so this is all you need to
know so what I want to know is how human you are let me tell you this is how you
have my question no I want to know I want to know how human you are so cool
because the reason I'm asking you this is because very often we want to be
guided by people who we feel have transcended
the insecurities of humanity so I want to know whether you're scared of
something I want to know whether you experience fear and I would also like to
know whether you have attachments can we start with the first let me finish this
this is not news hour okay banana when I'm telling you an
answer you can't ask me another question
I'll get there I'll get back and not we are not a team
republike that you're making a mistake in 2014 I met a young man
I don't know why everyone's laughing in here he too interrupted me like you did
I got back later but you have to answer my question later please you have a
different package here
so I will come to that I'm very much going towards that so the girl comes to
me and says this then I say see this all you have to know never look up to
anybody she looks at me what about you kind of thing
I said not even me never look up to anybody never looked down on anybody
this is all the teaching if you don't look up to anything if you don't look
down on anything you will see everything just the way it is if you see everything
just the way it is you will navigate your life effortlessly that's all it
takes now how human am i you just now used the
word human and almost everybody everywhere I go they use the word human
always referring to the limitations of being human never talking about the
immensity of being human oh I am only human but why are you not saying I'm
human you're on top you're the top species on the planet you're supposed to
be in the top of the pile of all the species why people are saying I am only
human is because they are suffering themselves like no other creature not an
ant or an elephant surfers themselves as human beings do the stomach is full
they're fine we're human being stomach empty only one
problem stomach full 100 problems the breezin is this an evolutionary thing
it's an evolutionary thing that what you call as your cerebral flower this brain
is new to you know the evolutionary scale of things it is a new happening
this intellect and most people have not figured how to handle it they're not
suffering the world they are selling their own thought and emotion most of
the time why is it your education systems did not even teach you how to
handle your thought how to handle your emotion now the moment you say you're
human are not first thing the next question somebody will ask is can I pull
a gold chain from thin air can I do something else or can I pull out a
rabbit from the vessel or can I pull a pigeon out of my pocket if I pull a
pigeon out of pocket my pocket what will you have you will have a bird I will
have a shitty pocket this is not going to change anybody's laughs I will show
you a miracle I will show you people who have who are full on activity not people
who are sitting in some cave full-on activity all right 20 hours a day seven
days of the week we are all armed I'll show you people four five 10 15 years
they have not had a moment of anger agitation irritation nothing they live
joyfully blissfully this is the miracle the world wants this is the miracle the
humanity needs if this happens to you you will not refer to human as a
limitation you will talk about human as a huge possibility - my question was
about whether you need to transcend a few things I personally think it's all
right it's good to feel fear it's good to have
insecurities it's good to be attached but what we are constantly told is to be
guilty about fear to be worried about expressing or being open that's
multiplying the problem now you have fear and now you have listened to I
still watch news hour so what can I do
this doesn't usually happen three o'clock well okay so you've made
me forget my question Mike my point was that we are constantly told to be too to
be embarrassed about our insecurities right we are told not to have
attachments we are constantly told that in our lives and in our own Hindu
philosophies and other philosophies to lose attachments I want to know why this
is necessary which is why I asked you because you were described as an
enlightened soul which I know you are I asked you within an hour if you like
enter enlightened soul like you feels insecure experiences attachment say why
this has come up is because people have a selective sense of involvement this
what I said when I said do not look up to anything look do not look down on
anything this is because if you look up to and it's something you will
exaggerate if you look down on something you will exaggerate the negative the
moment you look up to something you will get attached to it the moment you look
down on something you will get dejected by it in some way disgust will come so
these these emotions of fear insecurity attachment detachment everything is a
consequence shall we handle the source or shall we
handle the consequence people are always busy handling the consequence they're
telling you trim your fear can you feel timid no way is it going to
work now you're flipping on the other side
and saying we need not be ashamed of it let's have it easy to pleasant
experience I am asking is fear insecurity guilt whatever is it a
pleasant experience if it's a pleasant experience keep it it's up to you if
it's an unpleasant experience is it a choice I am asking you just this much in
the world around us what happens it's a different issue
world will never happen 100% the way you want it even if you're just two people
in the family still it doesn't happen hundred percent the way you want it if
it's 51 percent your way you are the boss okay more than that won't happen
but what happens within you must happen your way isn't it if what happens within
you happened your way would you keep this blissful or would you keep this
fearful or miserable or whatever you wouldn't do that to yourself isn't it at
least for yourself you weren't the highest level of pleasantness though
what you want for your neighbor may be debatable but what you want for yourself
is very clear isn't it so it's okay to have fear it's okay to be insecure now I
didn't say it's okay to be attached and I am understand you wish you had a
choice what about what about ego Sadhguru fear insecurity attachment and
ego these are the four things that we are told to get rid of over a period of
time we are told that as you grow older and you learn more in life you must
learn to give up me all this is what we is it is it necessarily the truth let's
go one at a time the ego everybody's talking about this
right now in any human being for that matter if they do something wonderful
they all say I did it if they do something nasty it was my ego so mr. ego
is a fall guy whenever you turn nasty he is always there but when you do good
things it's of course you isn't it I am saying let's become straight with
life that sometimes you are wonderful sometimes you're nasty sometimes you're
joyful sometimes you're miserable this is your reality right now you don't need
a fall guy this much sincerity we must bring into our lives that what happens
from Medan me is me and nobody else but me if you come to this much now if you
see your fearful or your miserable you're frustrated are you depressed if
you see it's all because of me would you not want to change it would you not want
to change it 100% now I want to change it how now you are asking for tools that
is why I'm here just giving you tools for transformation
because tools are important in human life as human beings we are dominating
the planet only because of our ability to use tools otherwise probably a colony
of ants or a pack of dogs could dominate human species but we can use tools the
power of tools is such right now if I ask you to unscrew a little screw in
this furniture you may lose all your nails it will not come out you may lose
some of your teeth it'll not come out if I give you a little screwdriver it'll
come out so similarly to handle the inner dimensions there are tools these
tools this is the USP of this country which is all messed up right now that
people have not presented it properly if I give you tools for transformation the
only thing is to learn to use the tools that's all you don't have to believe any
philosophy you don't have to adhere to any ideology you don't have to look
heavenward because you don't know in which direction it is people are looking
up after all you're sitting on a round planet and the damn thing is spinning
all the time if you look up you are obvious inevitably looking up in the
wrong direction
that's guru two simple questions one is when you experience what you said
sitting on a rock in your experience in kleitman we spoke about it once you
described it to me please don't think it's absurd question why did it happen
to you and doesn't it happen to others a what did you experience and what do
others have to go through to go through that experience are you blessed in a
different way why did nobody else go through that experience everyone seeks
that everyone is not seeking it nor was i seeking it
I was not seeking it you'll be able I must give you some
background when I was just four four and a half years of age I suddenly realized
that I don't know anything I don't know anything means I don't know anything at
all to such an extent if somebody gives me a glass of water I would be simply
staring at the water for hours on end I know what is water in terms of how I can
use it but I don't know what it is even today we don't know what it is with all
this scientific exploration we still do not know what a single atom is we know
how to break it we know how to use it we know how to use it but we don't know
what it is so if I saw a leaf I'm just staring at staring at it for five six
hours I sit up in my bed and I am staring at the darkness for the entire
night my dear father being a physician things that I need
psychiatric evaluation you also beginning to think
so he's worried this boy is simply staring at something all the time my
problem is I looked at this and I don't know what this is I am NOT able to shift
my attention to another one what is this what is that what is that what is that
by the time I'm 5 I'm a billion questions and nobody seems to know
anything initially they were all comfortable I thought they all know only
I don't know then slowly I realized they have made a deal with their ignorance
ignorance they've made a deal with the ignorance they all decided this how it
is we don't know you don't know it's ok we'll all pretend me everything is fine
I couldn't make a deal with my ignorance so I just had there staring at
everything in this condition they send me to school my mother said you must pay
attention to the teacher I went and paid attention to the teacher the kind of
attention the teacher would have never received in their life initially I heard
their words and sort of understood what they were trying to say but after a
while I realized they are only making sounds this will be very useful they're
only making sounds I am making up the meaning in my head when I realized
they're just you know our after our teacher after teacher they come and make
sounds make sounds and make sounds I am making up meanings and meanings and
meanings then I realized this and I stopped making meanings I just paid
attention to the sons after some time it became so amusing a big smile sprayed on
my face but they were not amused things continued like this about eight nine
years ago the school where I studied over 45 or 50 years ago they came to
invite me for their hundred and twenty-fifth anniversary I said see why
me because I was not just a bad student I was not even a student I only went
there it went it was a must they said no no our school has produced Union
ministers our school has produced test cricketing stars film
stars you're the only mistake you have to come so I went so I go up there go
there and stand up in the quadrangle to speak and I look around same oppressive
buildings and I look like this this classroom suddenly it reminds me I'm 12
years of age and those days I wouldn't speak speak for many days at a time
because when you don't know anything what to say
so one afternoon the teacher is trying to get a response from me he's asked a
question and he's asked I waiting for a response I simply look at him
I say nothing he can't make out anything of me and after some time I don't even
see him it's like that for me I know his past present and future but I
don't hear what he's saying after 3540 minutes of this effort he got
so mad with me he came and held me by the shoulder
shook me violently like this and said you must either be the divine or the
devil I think you're the later I was not insulted by this or abused by this my
problem was what is this what is that what is that what is that one certainty
was there this is me suddenly this guy confused me about this also I looked is
this divine is this devil what the hell is this I thought this is me this was
okay till then suddenly I didn't know what is this so I try to stare at myself
it didn't work so I started closing my eyes what was minutes than when in two
hours went in two days and that is my spirituality and then I buy the time and
15 I'm almost ready to leave home for an armed struggle these are the days of
Charu Mazumdar and soma Lu and I want to leave because any anything that I
perceive is injustice my my stomach burns so I want to rush a bunch of boys
all of us want to leave and join armed struggle
then when I got very close to them then I saw they were unfortunately not what
they were talking so I kind of stepped back then I became a super skeptic I
grew up Linda Starsky Kemal Kafka this kind of stuff skeptical about everything
but one thing was eating me that is this billions of questions and they started
growing the number of questions went on growing as my intellect grew no answer
then the only answer I found was to travel so initially I cycled across
South India then I motorcycle across India a criss cross to India many times
all over the place then when I was 19 plus I just you know I've been riding
since I was 11 without a license but by 18 the day I became 18 I went and got my
license within a week's time so suddenly I thought I am super empowered I can go
where I want then I came to Nepalese border and then they stopped me and they
asked for a passport I didn't know what it is you won't believe I was nearly
twenty nineteen at least I did not know what is a passport I did not I thought
mine license will get me everywhere then that was a kind of a realization I
thought okay oh I can't cross these lines so I went back determined to get
myself a passport and some money so that I'll travel forever because the only
thing that cooled me down from these questions was I was moving I wrote
across the country alone by myself simply not going anywhere in particular
I saw India like very few people would have seen India in a completely
different way I just walked into villages just knocked on a door and said
I'm hungry and they fed me without asking my name where I come from
sometimes I was tired so I slept in their homes next day morning I left
without asking their name who they are but that imagery those people those
emotions that stuff I think it's hugely enriched my life on the terrain I can
run the TV that I have seen thousands of kilometers
of terrain is like a video in my mind I can just run it in my mind and just
enjoy India just like that not some great monuments or something just a tree
and outcrop of rock deserve that like that this is how I remember everything
because I never think in words even today I think only in pictures and
images not in words I think that's what keeps me very very entertained by
everything that I do so then I thought I should make some money and got into
business they came far more successful than people who would expect in a short
period of time and everybody started clapping clapping their hands we were
doing great and wonderful but I was doing all this to get away from
everything but as success came you know you I try to put one finger then all the
five fingers went then all the ten fingers went it'll go right up till here
I think those highly successful business days probably was the most wasted days
of my life because there was no exploration I did variety of things
I started half a dozen small businesses which all started growing which people
would think such a success but I when I look back and see those six years of my
life are probably the least creative part of my life why do you do it I
thought I'll make money and right away why do you want to make one - right -
right yeah to fill the gas in to put gas in the tank all the time because right
from the age of 1213 I've been riding cycles across South India after that
I've been on a motorcycle I don't know how to you need gas so I thought I need
money to really go away so it cut me up and then one afternoon and village in
Mysore City how many of you familiar with my Sioux City okay there's a little
hill called Chamundi Hill there is a tradition in my soul at least there was
at that time for the youth if we fall out we have to go up Chamundi
Hill if you have nothing to do we went up somebody how so that afternoon
between two business meetings I just had about an hour and a half without even
thinking I just wrote up Chamundi hello I have camped there I have tricked this
hill right from my childhood I know this too well so I park my motorcycle climb
up and sit on that now famous rock but I'm telling you the rock is not special
it's like the Bodhi tree the tree became more famous in the Buddha so I just went
and sat there my eyes were still open and suddenly I did not know which is me
and which is not me till that moment it was always very clear this is me that is
somebody else I have no issue with that somebody but this is me and that's
somebody else suddenly I did not know which is me and which is not me
what was me was just everywhere the very rock upon which I was sitting they had
that I was breathing that master on me everything had become me I thought this
madness lasted for about 10-15 minutes but when I came back to my normal state
it was about four and a half hours my eyes were still open for the very first
time in my adult life tears me and tears were impossible I lived like this but
tears to a point my shirt is all wet and every cell in my body is bursting with
ecstasy when I shook my skeptical head and asked what is happening to me the
only thing that my mind could tell me was maybe you're going off your rocker
then when I shared with my closest friend something is happening to me it's
too fantastic they come on what did you drink what did you pop I saw there was
nobody around me nor anything in my mind to tell me what's happening to me all I
knew was I hid something which is a gold mine and I don't want to miss it for a
moment and I just discovered this if I just sit here without messing with my
thought process and my emotion my entire system will burst out in ecstasy and a
few days later I made a plan because I thought I am the first one to discover
this at that time because I had no spiritual I'm not acquainted with
spiritual traditions have never read a scripture in my life till today I have
never prayed to anybody or anything nor have I attended any spiritual discourses
or anything so I thought this is the first time I know and I made a plan in
two and a half to three years time I'm going to make the entire world ecstatic
say 35 years well we have touched 150 to 200 million people but that is not my
idea of the world slowly you know these days I've become wise now I realize so
many people have so seriously in invested in their misery they are not
going to withdraw their investment so easily it needs so much coaxing and
cuddling and life knocking them on their head so many things need to happen to
them or you have to threaten them with death otherwise they will not withdraw
their investments even though it is causing enormous pain and suffering to
them they are not willing to withdraw their investments in misery so slowly we
are working I know I will die a failure but a blissful failure I've made a
mistake Satguru my mistake is that I'm constructing a studio for our channel
Republic I constructed it in low Parral can you tell me the way to Chamundi Hill
please I want to build my studio Xin chào Mundi help it I'll also experience
ecstasy every more I don't know about mic I can make it happen in wherever you
are life changed after that the most important thing is the perception of who
I am changed I'm not talking the idea of why the perception of Hawaii
I went up the hill as a smart young man very cocky and confident about
everything I came down as real nothing just nothing means nothing was left in
me I I remember that moment I came down around 7:45 8 it happens to be a
Saturday evening we are in a construction industry and Saturday
evening is the time when we give out labor to everybody in front of our
office there are some 500 people waiting and my partner I come and park my
motorcycle and I still got the engine revving and I look in and my partner
looks out and he can't believe on a Saturday evening I'm not there he just
looks at me like this I just looked at this entire scene this is something we
built built means like every day from morning 5 to 11 in the night non-stop I
was on sites building this company I just looked at the expression on my
partner's face he just looked quizzical II what are you up to why are you not
here you kind of look on his face and I looked at all these people who were
waiting in lines for money the cashiers were giving out money I engaged the gear
and I left that was my end of my business then I looted around the town
because I didn't want to go home I didn't want to face my mother because
suddenly she was no more my mother somewhere I was little struggling with
that I knew when I went to went home I wouldn't look at her as I would have
look AB as I have looked at her for the last 25 years I didn't go there till
11:30 in the night I wanted her to go to bed but our mothers are such she's still
waiting I put my head down and went and said I'm not hungry and I went in locked
in my myself in the room because though something so fantastic was happening I
was still struggling between the two words everything that I considered as
myself till that moment was gone and suddenly I look at people it's
indescribable because so many things that you're
involved in it's like you almost died I think this is how it must feel when
you're dead so many things you think this is it this is this is it
but tomorrow Ning poop the man disappears nothing doesn't matter you
cry well he doesn't respond he said completely gone just like that
I was completely gone the person that I was was just gone
Sadhguru you meet a lot of interesting people who is the most self-aware of the
most enlightened human being you've met a lot of people around me names and why
usually they are not famous names simple people avoiding my question no I'm not
there must be some thing will we know the most fantastic human beings in the
planet are usually not well known
because getting known in the world is a different business being wonderful
within you is a different business I am doing everything possible to marry these
two what do you think about the state of the nation see we must understand that
as ancient we are as a nation the idea of a modern nation has not really sunk
into everybody's minds I believe the way you have named your new venture in some
way you want the idea to sink in to people's minds because the nation is not
some god-given thing it is something that exists in people's minds and hearts
it's just an idea that we enshrine in pursuit of common well-being but it goes
somewhere altogether over a period of time people start thinking it is dirty
that's not how it is but it is thing it's an important aspect because nation
is the largest segment of humanity that you can address right now if you could
address the entire humanity it would be fantastic but that's not possible that's
not realistic right now that may be the ideal but that's not realistic so right
now nation is the largest segment of humanity you can address India as a
nation is a world by itself so though we have a history of what we call as
Bharath or Hindustan which goes back to ten twelve thousand years of history
both though within this geography we had at certain times over 200 political
entities still we were considered a nation both by people within and those
outside also considered this nation though there were different Kings ruling
all over the place why this happened is a unique thing most nations are all
nations are made on the same sameness of something sameness of language sameness
of race sameness of religion some sameness is important we have defied
that completely we have never tried to be same in any
sense if you drive 50 kilometers anywhere in the country every 50
kilometers you meet different kind of people they look different talk
different dress different eat different everything is different about them but
still we have been a nation for over 10,000 years without maintaining the
sameness I think it's a extremely unique and fantastic happening which we must
culture and nurture and preserve what is it that kept sit kept us together why
people outside called as a nation though we were ruled by different entities all
the time fundamental thing which made made as one
nation is that every nation in the world believed in something we as a nation
never believed in anything we have always been a nation of seekers seekers
of truth seekers of liberation today's
in today's generation this might have gone out of the present lingo but it's
coming back in some other way in previous generation if you spoke in a
day my grandmother wouldn't end the conversation without at least once uh
Turing the word Mukti or moksha it was like day-to-day thing it's not like at
the end of your life you're thinking Mukti or when you go to your spiritual
discourse you're thinking okay no in day-to-day life in conversations
everyday Mukti Mukti maybe that is why today people are shouting as Adi as Adi
maybe it's coming back in another way but discussion and freedom of expression
and I personally felt pretty outraged last year when a group of people started
to make it fashionable to speak against the nation we saw the limits of the
debate on freedom of expression last year so the Guru my question to you is
in the context of what is happening today we've seen a little bit of that
happen once again on the North Campus of Delhi University in in your view why is
it becoming fashionable for some people to run down the nation and then use that
as an example of the freedom of expression
I find that hypocrisy what do you think everybody is very freely quoting the
Constitution it is the Constitution of India which gives you the freedom of
speech you must stress on the word India it is
the Constitution of India it is not some divine constitution which has given you
this freedom it is the Constitution of India which has given you this freedom
the moment you question that then you have questioned the fundamentals of the
making of a nation see religions have their own constitution the only problem
with this constitution is it's not amendable a nation has a constitution
but if all of us don't like it we could omit it it's not a given by somebody we
made it we agreed to it it's an agreement our constitution in Agra
among us so when the freedom of speech was given they put eight restrictions
the Indian Constitution puts eight restrictions on human on freedom of
speech one fundamental restriction is it should not question the sovereignty of
the nation the moment you question it you're questioning the existence of the
nation where does the Constitution give you freedom it doesn't make sense
so these things are coming from a certain background I am Telling You I
went through this when I was thirteen fourteen by the time I was fifteen I was
ready to pick up the gun because we were they have fiery talks every day you know
very insightful I mean not insightfully a very inciting kind of talks so fired
up that you want to do something and when you're young you always think you
know violence is the solution those people who are talking about peace they
don't believe in it they believe in violence the moment you talk about
breaking up something there is going to be violence whether you like it or you
don't like it if you you don't have to go that bar back far in history if you
just go back to 1948 when the country was broken because we didn't have the
courage to fix it we broke it we're still bleeding half a million people
died endless amount of suffering people went through and still there are
colonies both here in this country and that country which is still not sorted
out yes still even properties are not settled 70 years how long do you think
is you and just lifespan are we going to live 4000 years that we're going to
settle our problems over 70 hundred years still both the nations are
bleeding when I say bleeding don't think only of the human blood what is the what
is the kind of investment we are making in our armed forces
only because we broke this country isn't it
otherwise everything could have been focused on the well-being of the people
this - I mean just I'm not commenting on this just recently when I you know when
I was just reading the newspapers I saw twenty eight billion dollars for a
missile defense system from Russia we bind we are buying much more but I'm
just saying twenty billion dollars when I think about it we could educate every
child in the country we could nourish every child in the country we could do
so much work we could make sure people in this country live well but we cannot
do that right now simply because we broke the nation so if you talk about
breaking it further this will go on for centuries because breaking will never be
clean breaking it will not happen like that when you break somebody will be
this side somebody will be that side so much human suffering resentment hatred
which you cannot solve this line that was drawn just 6070 years ago can you
believe it is only 60 years the level of hatred we have for each other you can't
cure this isn't it so breaking is never a solution it's better to sort it out
whichever way it comes better to sort it out for that we have a framework which
is called the Constitution Constitution we must and repeating this is not a
divine document it is an agreement between you and me so that in every step
that we take we don't collide with each other this is the law that we will
follow that's all yeah I agree with you I'm so glad that you have made your
position so abundantly clear on this subject because I don't know why people
are conflicted circle some people say they are conflicted even
over issues such as whether you need to stand up for the national anthem we had
that's because in the theaters in one hand a popcorn another have they have
coca-cola they cannot stand up you must consider
but there was that absurd debate last year and I know many people here would
know about it it became fashionable last to say assert
my right to repeal and my rebellion is that I will not stand up for the
national anthem and I'm saying this openly Sadhguru I am a part of the media
too that I found the pseudo liberal media in this country advocating that as
an example of the freedom of expression and forgive me my directness on this I
never felt people in my fraternity or more wrong see what we need to
understand is we're picking up bits and pieces from developed nations and trying
to implant it into our country well sir well well sir when fifty percent of the
population has not even eaten properly you can't be debating nuances of
democracy it's just stupid you go to United States of America in every sports
event okay you know baseball match national anthem is played everybody will
stand up like this okay with their hand on their heart
well you're discussing some kind of French Revolution all right but you
don't have river science flowing not to have Paris around you you have slums
around you you have a stinking Yamuna flowing you shouldn't be talking the
same language and half the people have not eaten properly just take a walk just
take a walk in one of the villages you will see 60 percent of the population
their skeletal system has not grown to full size we are busy producing
underdeveloped human beings substandard human beings you're producing and you're
talking about a great nation and fanciful ideas this is not the time when
everybody is well-fed when things are taken care of then maybe you can talk
about certain things this is not the time I don't agree with you sir I don't
think great nations are built out of economic well-being but might that's my
simple point of disagreement with I'm not I'm not saying economic well-being
eating what I need to eat to sustain this body is not economic well-being
it is a fundamental right whether there is a nation or no nation not just for a
human being not just for a human being for every worm insect animal bird the
basic sustenance necessary for their survival is the right of the creature
isn't it so this is not about economic well-being this is a must for every life
every worm insect bird animal tree must get the fundamental nourishment of
course we are included as one of the creatures now I meant it in your linking
the talk of a great nation to whether we have everything that we need I think we
still can be even if we don't Sadhguru with again polite disagreement with you
the you know what happened in Bangladesh after the famine also saw the rise of
the greatest form of nationalism in Bangladesh so history teaches us
different lessons at different points of time I don't want to argue with you on
this we'll go aside and have an argument of
my point to you which you which which provokes me to take this discussion
further there why have have we become like having insulated ourselves the
better we do the more we want to cut ourselves off from our own country and
our surroundings then I agree with your previous point in 1997 Sadhguru I was in
NDTV there was a story which came out a reporter called somewhat mahapatra
called me and he said that there is a story I want to go and report and we
needed approval from the headquarters to send the reporter down some put went
there and he said there's a village where people are dying we sent him there
when he went there he said that there was an entire village which which was
dying and the reason for that was horrifying
there was complete starvation in that village there was a drought there was no
health facilities there was not a grain of rice so the people of this area which
is the kbk kala and B belong here Cora put a belt
in Orissa started taking the seeds of mangoes putting it into muddy water and
making a soup of it that because it was so hot started becoming rotten and so it
was a rotten mango cruel that was prepared and because they were so hungry
and no mother can see her child staff they were poisoning themselves to death
because they were so hungry they had to eat something in my life I remember at
that time as a reporter I stood outside gate number one of parliament I was so
angry and I confronted the then food minister who said to me that is buried
Ishmael Beasties look Marja there but Capitan Granada and I was shocked and
horrified Sankar till this date I feel and people say to me why do you scream
so much I say because in this country you don't yell you don't scream nobody
gives a damn I still do believe that in this country we believe in that chalta
attitude because we think everything's ok with us why should we care about the
rest of the world we are growing but the chasm in our country is also growing
between the rich and the poor between the haves and the have-nots between
those who have everything and those who don't have any shelter and yet we feel
happy enough to cut ourselves off from it is it true that we spend a large
amount of our time cutting ourselves off from our own country is this not one of
the greatest problems of India today that we the privileged sections of India
have cut ourselves off from the rest of India and is there a solution for it so
the question is not about the disconnect between the well-to-do and not so well
to do or the improvised regions of our nation we are we have not invested
enough in the fundamental nature of our humanity we become many things other
than being human if you sat here as just a human being it
would be very natural for you that your heart beats for everything around you
but now you become so many things starting from gender language culture
religion race ethnicity in many ways we have identified ourselves because of
these identities these all these identities give you a certain sense that
you can undermine your humanity you cannot undermine your humanity if you
did not have these identities or if you did not give it too much priority you
all of us have those identities at a certain level cultural identities are
their language identities are there but they are not fundamental to us our
fundamental nature is that we're life if you set here as life you would
reverberate with every life nobody had to tell you you would be that way but
that is not happened that is because we are a moral country we've never had
codes of morality in this nation we have always managed populations because in
every generation they were enlightened beings
hundreds of them and so we manage human consciousness in a certain way by making
people conscious we manage situations in a beautiful way wherever those people
did not come or not enough were there their anarchie happen chaos happened
because we have never had a set of morality because morality makes you act
but doesn't transform you for example and I'm sorry I'm not commenting on the
theme of the club for example the word service leaving the theme of this see
it's like this if you let's say there is a child start out on the street if you
pick up the child and feed this child and take care of this child you think it
is service but if you pick up your own child
do that you don't think it is service what is the difference I'm asking for
one your heart is beating for the other it is not so the Baroness of heart is
the basis of all this we are always trying to do good you don't have to do
goo any good you just have to become a full-fledged human being a full-fledged
human being means and natural conscious response to everything and what best you
could do you could do and that's all a man can do that you are at your best
always to everybody and everything are you doing the greatest maybe not but I
am doing my best if every human being does their best in every sphere of life
with every life that they come in touch with something will happen but above all
this is a more large-scale problem that there is lack of planning lot of lack of
policy lack of Corrections and irresponsible population explosion in
1947 we were only 33 crores today we are 120 crores or 25 crores four times over
in 70 years is irresponsible reproduction this is not because we have
over reproduced we must understand this in 1947 the average life expectancy of
an Indian was only 28 years today we are reaching somewhere 63 64 which is a
great achievement we should further push it but on an
average a woman used to go into pregnancy when she was 14 15 or 16 today
we pushed it to something like 19 20 is the average when they're getting
pregnant so by the time she's 65 or 70 there are four generations behind her or
three generations behind her and one or two generations ahead of her that means
right now in many families there are five generations living this is not good
this is very brutal what I am saying I know but at any time there is space only
for three generations your parents yourself and your children there can't
be five generations living that's what is happening right now in this country
and in many of the places especially in this country five generations are living
so there is no space once there is such a load people will keep their humanity
in the Attic and go about brutally that child who comes and knocks on your
traffic space I would cry at one time now I'm trying to look down because
every time I don't have money to pull out most of the time I don't have I have
to ask the driver who's driving please give me some money so I try to look down
so you're trying to put down your humanity for some time but it would be
natural for me to pull out whatever I have and give it to him but now you
can't do it because it's everywhere which it's too much of a problem for you
to address individually wherever you can do whatever you can do you do but you're
not able to address everything slowly you try to insulate your humanity this
is what is happening it is not that people have become brutal it's not the
people have becoming inhuman because the problem is so pervasive you're not able
to address it as hate increased after Trump has hate increased after Trump
it is not increased it is just that it's little emboldened it's not increased I
spend substantial time in United States in and out it was always there now it is
finding expression but I think that's a temporary up search I think it will
control itself law law enforcement will take charge after some time they'll pick
up a few people handle that but hate crimes have been happening all the time
in America as Europe invited trouble on itself you know it's open the doors
there's been a lot of they have not opened doors they've closed to all the
doors they've built friends out there they're just not allowing the media near
the fences anymore or media also is part of it they don't go near the fences they
only shoot the open spaces their cameras don't pick up the fences
most nations have put a barbed wire fences wherever the migrants could come
and they've stopped all right you can't blame them either because they're coming
in millions if millions of new people come with a completely different culture
culture a religion which they will not compromise and they will not fit into
your society they will try to create their own society local people will feel
insecure it's see it is it is a multi-headed problem it's not a simple
problem so this is why I'm saying for all these as are the groups also the
moment you break the fabric of any nation it doesn't matter how fragile how
ramshackle it is the moment you break it what comes out of it is such a thing
that you cannot control it see if you had not bombed bombed out these nations
if you had not bombed out Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan wherever if you are
not done that if you had negotiated and settle those problems to whatever extent
you can't fix all the problems at least you could have contained the problems if
you had done that these people would not be moving to Europe somehow they would
continue to live because nobody wants to leave their place of birth and their
parentage and everything just for nothing when it becomes terrible they
want to go but once the momentum starts the things that I have seen in Europe I
cannot utter here it's terrible what these migrants are doing to themselves
to earn just one meal it's too horrible the women are all on the streets all
kinds of people with children and everything they are on the street
selling themselves because there is no other way to make a living
it's these are all people who lived reasonably well really well means maybe
not in in the same level of economic well-being as the Western Europe but
they lived with some dignity with some pride in their own lands I drove from
Beirut to Damascus to the Iraqi border I just drove myself through the desert and
fantastic country it was just seven years ago you know real
nice country particularly the city Aleppo City which is an eight thousand
year old city this city was built on taxes levied on Indian traders so you
must assume what is the level of trade that was happening between India and
Damascus and Jerusalem was such just by the taxes that the Indian traders paid
they built a city a living City eight thousand years old one of the most
beautiful cities if you ask me today when I see on the news channels Aleppo
its what is it is this a solution for anybody so you may have whatever people
earn Nobel Peace Prizes but this is the kind of solutions they offer to the
world there was no need to do these things there was a way to negotiate
because of the simplistic moralistic attitude that you have that this is a
good guy this is a bad guy this is basic stuff good guy bad guy business and
millions of people over a million are dead over 10 to 15 million are homeless
nobody is counting these numbers really properly but what's happened to Aleppo
when I see on the screens I can't believe it this is a city that I enjoyed
so much just seven years ago and the people were so wonderful I'm not quite
sure you know you quickly passed through my question when I asked about what
happening America and you glanced it through and you said that it's a it's a
temporary thing I'm saying nothing has changed as the news channels are trying
to project a suddenly America has change become a cauldron of hate this is not
true generally there is a racial discrimination in the country all of us
face it somewhere or the other especially me
I have not been shorted yet but people have given me daggers and so many things
happen there we just say okay this is how this country's and go on this
America has the most beautiful aspects of life also and very extremely negative
aspects also because this is that kind of a melting pot all kinds of people now
those people some of those people are feeling emboldened and they think they
can act but I'm telling you they were acting even before how many hate crimes
have happened recently in the last one two years you must have seen all these
black people being shot in many places they put on the Facebook live and all
that stuff but this has been happening all the time suddenly because of the
Facebook you think it's happening no it's been happening all the time now the
world knows otherwise the people who live there they always know this happens
all the time just look back at the statistics let's say in nineteen twenty
sixteen 2015 how many Indians how many blacks how many Hispanics have been
killed I don't think the numbers have changed the reporting has changed you
blaming the media for I am not blaming the media you're not blaming Trump
you're not blaming Trump but you're blaming the media for them I think I'm
saying yes definitely his presence is embolden them but I am saying nobody
needs to embolden them they've been always doing it maybe now they are
turning the words they are not afraid of uttering the words because they think
and the highest office there is support
you
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