Welcome to 1000PS TV, to the comparison Harley Davidson Road King 2017
against Indian Springfield 2017.
I really look forward to this because despite me loving a fast ride
I'm totally into these choppers, into cruising. And both bikes are actually
the stuff of my dreams, exactly what I want.
Still, there was a winner and there are some big differences.
It's like if somebody never heard Heavy Metal, he'd say it's all the same.
It's the same with choppers, somebody who never road one will say it's all the same.
But no, there are big differences.
And well, in the end there is a winner.
What's very important on cruisers, is the engine.
All of these engines have a huge displacement.
Of course they have low power, because as we know, power is torque times speed.
And because they don't rev high - I guess 6000 rpm, that's about the limit -
they don't have astonishing horse power. I guess it's about 90 hp on both.
Nevertheless there's a significant difference in torque.
On the Indian we have 135 Nm at 2100 rpm, that's massive!
And the Road King
with the new Milwaukee 8 engine
delivers 150 Nm at, I think, 3250 rpm.
The astonishing thing, which really surprised me, is -
let's talk about the Harley engine. It's, like mentioned, the Milwaukee 8 with 107 cubic inch,
which are 1745 cc.
And it has - this completely new from Harley - a 4-valve head.
These big tourers never had a 4-valve head. Just now, I think because EURO 4,
they switched to it. And they did a sensational job.
I'm deeply impressed, staggering how well it works.
And what surprised me: I thought the max torque comes a little later, at 3200 rpm,
not from the start. But it pushes out of low speed - insane!
While easily cruising it even made me think "Holy shit! There is some big torque-wave coming!", almost
overwhelming me.
But you'll get used to it quite fast and you really love the punch.
What else can we say of the engine?
As said, 1745 cc serial - 107 ci, 4-valve cylinder head
and, what's also new, the head is being - at least the outlet valves are being oil cooled.
What I didn't notice, although I usually do, was the fact the back
cylinder creates tremendous heat.
Today it's relatively cool so I didn't notice.
However if they did this with the oilcooled valves than it's great.
Because in summer it always was - I like to ride in shorts btw -
you ride and radiates so much heat you'd have to speed up.
So much for the engine. In my opinion the Milwaukee 8 is very well-made.
I have to doff my hat. It's great.
And lively, no doubt. He still rumbles and lives but has so much more
power than the 2016 version.
That's a dramatic difference and I love it!
It pushes heavily and also
does it from the bottom on.
If you twist the throttle you're really in for some power and this might make
you go wide in corners.
The suspension I'll mention later.
Now the Indian engine, the Thunderstroke 111.
To me
this has to be the neatest cruiser engine I know.
Just unbelievable how nice it looks. They did a tremendous job.
And since Indian -
the original Indians are 1 or 2 years older than HD. I think Indian
started 1901 and HD did 1903. Whereby Harley Davidson continued production till today
and Indian went bankrupt after WW2. They always sompeted with HD before
and it always was a big battle.
They broke speed records and always were in front in races, which of course is long gone.
And after the war they went broke, it was over after WW2.
In the 80s and 90s they tried to revive them,
however it was a flop.
This always bothered me because if you have a great name you need a great company
to built something sweet again.
Polaris now has done it.
They developed, I don't know,
the Thunderstroke 111 engine 5 or 6 years ago and -
Right, that was what i wanted to say -
took a good look at the classic models.
They saw they the distinct characteristics of the engines and made the
new ones just alike.
Now this has 1811 cc,
2 valves per head. not 4 like the Milwaukee 8.
A classic 2-valve
with a monstrous displacement
and 135 Nm. In America it has 160 Nm.
The european 135 Nm are a little hurtful I think. But the major market is America so they...
I'm sure the dealer could up you to 160 Nm by clipping the airbox and updating the software.
And since this is my endurance tester I will go for that.
However, it's not just great optically but as a cruiser engine as well.
Absolutely great!
Yet, it doesn't have the low speed punch of the Milwaukee 8.
What a great engine they built!
- but it has a very linear output over the entire rev range and is great
to use. And while cruising - I hardly ride these bikes very fast.
If I... how do you say? If I feel my oats!
Well, if I loose it I'll have to rip it shortly.
But normally I take a seat on something like this to completely relax and enjoy.
No stressing at all.
And with the linear output of the Thunderstroke 111 it's easier to do.
What's also important on a cruiser is the suspension.
But it's often disregarded because one might think it's all just cruising.
That's wrong however. Since you also ride - at least I am -
with passenger or on rough roads, because it doesn matter, there isn't much leaning anyways.
Then it certainly is important to have a capable suspension and spring range.
This was lacking on Harleys of the past.
Especially in the back it had very low spring range.
Indian did a tremendous job there.
A premium suspension right from the start.
In front there is 46mm cartridge fork
and in the back an air pressurised, adjustable monoshock.
This creates fantastic comfort while still being resilient.
You don't have to fear braking to late in corners and dropping the bike.
It stays stable.
The Harley suspension is way better than 2016.
They also have a cartridge fork,
with even 49mm stanchion tubes.
And in the back it has oil dashpots, 2 shock absorbers.
I personally think the spring range still isn't topnotch.
Generally it's tuned quite firmly.
Strangely this complements the 2017 Road King, as you can really ride it fast.
Regarding comfort the Indian wins it, but when it gets sporty
it was staggering how transparent it was because with most of these bikes
you don't have much feel for the front tyre.
But the Road King actually
delivers really well when you ride faster.
The Indian is a bit more diffuse. However, since I only cruise on such a thing
the suspension is - I'd probably chose this one as well, funnily enough.
Now, the brakes. It's always said Harley don't brake.
But the Road King with it's new brakes...
Unbelievable! Killer braking.
Due to the fork you can really bite the front wheel
and you basically are in a sporty league.
The brakes of the Indian are very good, well made for a chopper.
But this one is sharper. Has more bite.
I wouldn't have believed it either. But it is.
And, well - how shall I put it? - the better the brakes the more I like it.
Brakes are definately the Road Kings score. Though this one isn't bad either, it's great.
NOW!
The crazy thing.
The Road King already is a humdinger, a huge block.
But the Indian is bigger.
The Indian has a bigger wheelbase, 1701 mm opposed to 1645mm, I think.
It's not much, but still it's more "mass".
The weight is similar. Here we have 300...
Both are about 380 kg, I don't know exactly, maybe one 379
and the other 388 kg, but whatever.
Both are heavy pieces.
But you only feel it when maneuvering, not much while riding.
But there is a big disparity and you distinctly notice it in the ride.
The Indian Springfield has a quite steep steering angle of 25 degrees
and additionaly a 16 inch front wheel plus 133mm castor.
The Road King's fork isn't too flat either, but it has a 26 degree angle, 1° more,
a 17 inch wheel and 170mm castor.
You clearly feel this when steering.
The Indian Springfield
I have never ridden a chopper that steers so easily.
It's completely neutral,
more or less like mind controlled. You usually get this only on supersports.
It enters corners so easily, you only need 2 fingers
and the thought: "Now I enter the corner"
and the Indian Springfield enters.
The Road King fights a bit. You need a little pressure.
If you directly switch it feels almost unwieldy. But after a few
miles it's gone and you're fine.
If you pay attention you'll notice in slow corners it needs a bit
counter pressure or the cornering isn't neutral, it starts pulling towards the corner.
So you need to counterpress a bit, but you get use to it.
I also think that getting wide - on the Road King it happen 2 or 3 times
that I thought "Oops, if I continue this line, I'll get very wide!"
And becoming wide is a no-go. You can't ride into the oncoming traffic.
I managed by closing the throttle
then the radius becomes narrower.
I believe this happens first because it's not "mind-controlled" like this one is.
And second because of the engine having more punch.
It just pushes you. With a little twist of throttle you'll get a torque wave.
And this makes the bike go wide.
This means you need to work. Not on that bike however.
You sit on it dreamy and relaxed and it just rides how it shoud ride.
Without much effort needed.
Apropos cornering.
Of course there are always not-so-smart folks wo say:
"Come on, you can't corner a chopper!"...
Oh my!
Could be a face planter ahead.
Shit!
Apropos cornering. There are some ignorant people who say:
"Come on, you can't ride that, everything is dragging so quickly!"
Of course there are choppers who start dragging very quickly.
But the Road King, it always was a representative of these
heavy "iron chunks" as you might also call them, which indeed
have a respectable clearance.
Well, of course 32 degrees aren't the world. No doubt.
But
you have to strive to let it drag. "The Kukinger" did it once.
But when I ride normally I have got a comfortable lean angle ratio.
For most riders this is enough.
Most riders don't lean much further than 32°. It's good.
The Indian is also good, it has 31° lean angle clearance. I never dragged it.
I ride it very smooth, with much joy.
And don't have to think, like on the Fatboy -
on the Fatboy you have to tilt it upright a bit because it really drags fast.
But this one will never drag because it's absolutely species-appropriate.
Perfect!
Now we're talking a very important topic, the looks.
I think the optics on a cruiser are even more important than the technology.
Because it must really appeal to me, it has to touch my heart!
I've got to be able to sit in my garden and think: "Wow, it's so beautiful!"
Well,
the fact is Harley has always obliged me insanely.
And still does, I love it!
But the Indian
is on par with Harley.
In the book of optics it's just an insanely pretty bike. Unbelievable!
The engine,
I think it's the prettiest that exists, except for sportbike engines.
But they have different criteria.
It's insane, the cylinder heads! Than the rods!
And there the Indian logos! I have always been an Amerindian freak,
in the western movies I always voted for them.
This just makes me...
really happy when I look at it.
I love the Indian logo.
The oldschool fender is great. The front mask is amazing, sweeping..
And the saddle itself is an artwork.
A real leather saddle
which is finely shaped. Also is very comfortable
and just looks superb.
The suitcases also. They are plastic though, but the rest is metal.
And there, let me show you,
is the only unworthy plastic part, this here.
This sadly is such a plastic application.
Everything else you see, f.E. these chrome-plated fittings which are nice,
is metal.
And
they really did a great job.
They didn't miss out on anything, they knew their competition -
namely Harley Davidson - and knew they can't show weakness.
And they succeeded.
You get the chrome-plated fittings at Harley as well, but I believe
only on the CVU models, the "Screaming Eagle" range.
And those are much more expensive.
While we're at it
let us talk prices.
The Indian is more expensive than the Road King.
I'll have to check my notes quickly.
Because I can - I don't need to buy, just ride them thankfully.
The Indians costs 31495 € in Austria, in Germany 26995, because they
are bonkers with their taxes here.
It's insane, they collect 4500 € on taxes here!
Compared to Germany. A tremendous insolence I have to say!
And 29600 CHF. That's the Indian.
And now the cheaper bike, which is crazy.
But then again, you don't get chrome-plated fittings.
And what else?
There isn't much else.
I can't see much what might be better there than here.
Except the cables maybe.
Fact is, if you take a look,
the electronic cable are inside the handlebar, sweet.
And in comparison it almost looks cheap on the Harley.
The cables are everywhere here, and there - well, that's how it is.
I personally don't understand how on such an expensive bike
you can mount such cable joints, which seem to be open even.
I'm a russian tinkerer myself.
I'm crazy when I craft. But I would cover this up.
Sadly on the Indian I found this as well.
Where was it? Right there in the front, look!
That is something... I would... I don't understand that.
Now the Harley price tag.
The Road King in dual tone lacqer, like this one, costs 29700 in Austria.
In Germany, insane, 25065 €. That's 4700 cheaper! Insolence!
And in Switzerland it costs 25900 CHF.
Now
the price difference is about the same in all countries.
Still, it's significant, 1500-2000€, that's not few.
Especially since - the Indian has a strong name, but the Harley world is
legendary. The dealers are like temples.
Insofar it's a bold statement from Indian.
However I believe this is smart. They think: "We build a great bike
why should we offer it below value? Just because we don't have such a large buyer's base?"
Now the assessment.
The evaluation is purely subjective of course. I can only state what I myself -
I don't have to buy it, I get them provided.
If you'd tell me, I can ride to the Neusiedler lake this afternoon.
What would I take?
Funnily enough it definately is
the Indian Springfield.
Because it just incredibly pleases me.
I love it that it's something new.
An addition to the cruiser market.
The riding position is comfy. I'm a big fan of the cornering.
Motorcycles that seem to ride by themselves are my favourites. Always great.
Yet I have to add I would love it to ride the Road King as well.
The decision is clear yet close.
No matter which bike I would own, I'd be immensely proud and have huge joy.
But if I could chose I'd say my heart beats for the Springfield.
That's how it is!
I have a short addendum!
This time we have windhields mounted on both bikes.
Normally I took them off,
but it was relatively cold in spring.
So I really enjoyed it because it takes cold away quite well.
It is however - I usually only ride with windshields when I'm ripping it.
And you can't really rip them.
Although, I think
both are licensed with 180 kph, or 175 kph.
However I don't want to achieve it on these bikes, I don't think that's pleasant.
Also it's not species-appropriate and I don't do it.
I never ride such bikes that fast, maybe 120, 130 or briefly 140 kph.
It's no fun. But back to the windshield.
I always thought -
in the past I had a one on a Road King and I rode down to Mugello.
And I thought this is strange, you get so much turbulences.
Still do on both windshields.
But then I noticed, this was made for the US market and they don't ride
faster than 110 kph. Up to that the windshield
has very few turbulences, offers real protection and seats
you very relaxed.
Otherwise you also could ride 110 kph without windshield.
Now I kept it on because - how shall I put it? It's a bit warmer.
Or it's not as cold.
Many thanks for listening!
I hope the review was insightful.
I for sure had much joy riding both. And I hope the Road King isn't
mad at me for slightly preferring the Indian Springfield.
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