- Have you ever thought about
how rockets keep the pointy end of themselves
going in the right direction as they
move through the atmosphere without wings or fins?
They use a technique called gimballing,
where the exhaust nozzle of the rocket
can be swiveled from side to side.
As the nozzle is moved,
the direction of thrust is changed
relative to the center of gravity of the rocket.
This was technology that was really only available to
space agencies, the military,
and very high-end amateur rocketeers.
And it was kind of available to the
smaller end rocketeer community as well
but it was very cumbersome, hard to,
for any, you know, typical person to recreate,
and it just never really caught on.
Until now.
Joe Barnard, the man behind BPS.space,
has invented the first off-the-shelf gimbal system
that at-home rocket makers can implement
into their boosters.
This space creator is revitalizing the technology
in the amateur rocketeer community.
And is rapidly growing that YouTube channel
to grow his community.
So, let's talk to Joe.
Okay, so Joe, thanks a lot for taking time to just
be here and talk with us today
for the Space Creators series,
I've been following you now, I would say for almost a year,
you've just been kind of popping up on the internet
and I'm loving what you're doing.
What is BPS.space?
- It's becoming sort of a YouTube channel,
it was a business for a little while,
we were doing mostly just direct sales
of a product that we made called Signal.
I actually have one here, it's a little tiny
flight computer that goes inside model rockets
and the computer keeps these rockets stable without fins,
just like the real, you know, space launch vehicles do.
That's kind of like, the main thing that BPS does,
is we work on putting thrust vector control
into model rockets which just,
it's been done before but never at this scale.
- And when I'm watching your channel grow
and your trial and error,
it reminds me a lot of like, NASA in the 50s,
like you just see, that you're kinda see
that their kinda figuring it out
but the rockets are just like going up
and then all of a sudden they're going sideways
and you see they're trying to correct and then,
you're at least making it appear
like you're enjoying your failures,
or that you're learning.
- It looks really good to say like,
oh yeah we learn from all the failures,
like it's, well this is actually not a failure
it's a learning opportunity, like failure sucks.
It really does, like, just no matter what you're doing.
Whether you're blowing up a 60 million dollar rocket
or whether you're blowing up a weekend project.
Auto sequence start,
eight, seven, six,
five, four, three, two.
(rocket launching)
- What inspired you to take on this, like,
niche market of model rockets
but then even more narrowed down, like,
this is high-end stuff, like,
you're creating like the Ferrari of model rockets.
- In 2015, in the fall, I had no prior experience
in aerospace or in engineering or in software
or, you know, computer design,
any of these things, it was all self-taught,
and I really wanted a job at SpaceX.
I had graduated the Berklee College of Music
with a music degree,
I wanted a serious job in aerospace engineering
and I just knew, like there was no way
I was going to be taken seriously
unless I either went back to school
or I did something really impressive.
It was a literal shower idea where I thought,
okay, well I, you know,
I have some really basic coding skills,
I could probably figure out how to 3D print things,
could probably figure out how to do
a little bit of the math behind how rockets fly
and, if I worked hard enough at it,
I could probably land a model rocket
like the Falcon 9 lands.
And that might be impressive enough that SpaceX would say,
hey that was the impetus for the project.
- Have you always been, like a space fan?
I mean, considering
you went to school for music, then you graduated,
and then you decided you wanted to get into aerospace,
was this like a new-found fandom
or has this been something that you've
followed for a long time?
- I mean this happened with a lot of people,
but it wasn't until I saw
the Grasshopper landing test from SpaceX
where they take their, one of their early
Falcon 9 development rockets,
they fly it up like a thousand feet
and then just bring it back down.
And it looks crazy, it's like
cool, what video game is this?
Like, they do incredible optic, looks great.
I saw that and it was like, uh oh
I've picked the wrong career path
because that's what I want to do.
- I wouldn't say I was similar,
not necessarily like wanting to work for SpaceX
but I grew up being a huge space nerd,
I went to space camp, I would build the models,
I dreamed of being an astronaut, right.
When I got to college I just fell in love with film,
I thought I wanted to work in sports.
I worked in sports, learned I don't want to work in sports.
I was working at Discovery Channel
and I remember being on YouTube randomly
and seeing that Grasshopper video
and being like, I'm living in the future
and that just lit that fire back up for me.
What you're doing right, is that,
it's almost like reality TV to a sense.
We're witnessing real-time trial and error.
I made a video several months ago, I think I titled it
Why SpaceX Live Streams are Can't Miss Internet.
- I saw that, yeah.
- We're basically watching in real-time,
like, trial and error
and if you look at their YouTube channel from the beginning,
it was just such a rollercoaster of watching these
rockets crashing or failing to launch at all
and I see in your channel a lot of parallel.
- I think you're right, I hadn't
thought about it this way before
but SpaceX has a lot of videos
on their YouTube channel from a while ago
that are like, of rockets not going so well
and boy, I have a lot of those too.
Yeah, so the Falcon Heavy, it's right back there,
this is launch, it's a 1/48 scale model
and it's just unbelievably complicated
but it has launched once all up full, so far.
We're gonna land this stuff too, that's gonna happen.
It's just, that's not the only thing that's going on.
So I also have an isolated landing test program.
There's a small, black rocket sitting on its side,
behind the Falcon Heavy, that you can't see too well.
That's the Eco landing test vehicle.
So right now, we're dropping that thing from a drone
and just seeing how close we can get.
It's pretty close, man, it's pretty close,
like two meters off the ground, it'll just hover.
But things are just like,
all trending in the right direction
and after, I think, we get Falcon Heavy flying well,
I think it would be cool to start literally
scaling things up a little bit too.
- It seems like from your videos,
are you making all of the boards by hand?
I mean the boards you're having manufactured elsewhere
but you're soldering on several components onto that board,
can you talk about that process a little bit?
- This is what shows up,
this is how much I do not manufacture,
so this is basically, it's a piece of fiberglass
with two pieces of copper on the top and the bottom.
And then it has a little bit of,
I don't know what the material is,
but there's a silk screen on the top and bottom too
that give you the Signal logo
and you have some other little
indication things and lines, basically
this is how it shows up.
Then I buy all of the little components.
And it turns from this into this.
So, it doesn't look too much different
but there are basically,
there's a little bit more going on there,
there's a lot of components on the back.
If you're manufacturing in any type of bulk,
you have this process, the soldering
on this board, done by a machine
because a machine is just, like, incredibly precise
and it cuts done just the time that people have to work.
But if you're really trying to be cost-effective
and you're not paying yourself,
it's more cost-effective to just do it by hand
and sort of suck it up.
I spend like, a week every two months just
slaving over a hot iron.
- And how many can you do in a day now?
- I'm up to like 32 a day.
It's crazy.
- Wow.
- It's so much work, I really hate doing it so much.
- You're able to teach people things, give them a story
but also promote your product, which is a great product,
doesn't feel like a commercial, it feels like
I'm doing this really cool thing,
but I'm also using this thing that I invented.
- I realized this in the fall,
when I started getting
like super serious with the YouTube videos.
It's almost always worth it to like,
share what you're doing online.
I think this is really underappreciated
and there are so many people who are doing projects
that are exactly like mine
and they're just not publishing stuff.
You should totally do it
because it'll make your work better.
It makes me a better engineer
to get feedback from other people.
- What do you hope for the future of BPS?
What kind of obstacles
or goals are you trying to set for yourself?
- It's really hard to think about that right now,
except that I do know where I don't want it to go.
Everyone wants to be Elon Musk,
we'll like, get the elephant out of the room.
I also kind of look like him,
that's like, 30% of the comments on my channel.
Everyone's like, really great idea these days
is I'm gonna start a space company
and we're gonna beat out the whole market
because we're gonna land our rocket,
it's like you are too late, buddy.
- Yeah no, you needed to do that 20 years ago.
- I don't want to be an orbital launch company,
I don't wanna like, scale to that level.
But I also, I wanna build bigger rockets.
There are a couple of companies that are sort of,
in between orbital and the hobby scale
that are doing some cool work.
Some of those intermediate levels are really cool
and I think there's some room for good development there.
- Like sounding rocket level type?
- Yeah, there's like, there's still
these weird problems with sounding rockets
like, you get aeroheating
because you have to dump so much impulse
at the beginning of your flight
that like, your airframe has to be really expensive
because it has to resist a lot of heat
so like, if you can go slow through thrust vector control.
I kind of just wanna do the
education thing for a little while.
I feel like I'm using
all of my talents to the best of my ability right now.
So like, I know how to shoot video,
I, like that was a career for me for a little while.
And so I'm using that to put out this information.
And I like building rockets and I,
that's what the videos are about so I think it's,
right now where it's at,
as much as I can grow it, that's the goal.
- Now that you've done all of this
do you still wanna work for SpaceX?
- What I can tell you about that
is that the original goal
was to get the attention of SpaceX with the project
and what I can tell you is that
by that measure, I have definitely succeeded.
(laughing)
just build cool things, and put them online
because people will notice more than SpaceX.
- That's been your ethos this whole conversation,
is if you're doing something you're passionate about
let other people know about it.
So with your Falcon Heavy, what are you hoping your
peak altitude's gonna get to?
- The Falcon Heavy, yeah, in terms of peak altitude
this thing isn't going higher than 100 meters.
The point of the Falcon Heavy is not altitude
but it's just like, how much nonsense complexity
can I cram into a rocket that size?
But if you want the numbers, it's like
anywhere between 60 and 100 meters.
The upper stage is really light
and pretty unpredictable so, but
these cores at the bottom drop off at like 15 to 20 meters,
I mean they just don't go anywhere.
(TJ laughing)
It looks so majestic but what you'll notice is that
when those boosters drop off they can't be more than like,
you know, 100 feet in the air.
- Do you plan on eventually getting into liquid engines?
Or do you want to stay with the solid motors,
have you even dabbled in that yet?
- Yeah, if you had asked me if
I had planned on getting into liquid engines
six months ago, I would've said no,
but now, I kinda feel like it would be really fun.
But it also requires a non-trivial amount of cash.
So we'll see, I would like to
but there are a lot of things
that need to work out for that to happen.
- Joe, thanks a lot for taking time to talk to me,
for anybody else watching
and they wanna follow more about Joe,
the links to his channel and Twitter
and everything are below.
He's got great content.
Even if you aren't interested in
learning how to build model rockets,
Joe has just a lot of great rocket science on his channel
so you'll learn a lot.
Oh, I do also wanna pump sfsf.shop,
Michael the creator makes these really cool shirts
and I wore in the last couple episodes.
I'm gonna have a link in the top comment below,
please consider buying his shirt, the proceeds I would get
are actually gonna be directly donated
to the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America,
it's a nonprofit that fights for the rights
of veterans across the country.
So anyways, if you liked this video
please consider subscribing to my channel,
I try to put up videos when I can
but never know when it's actually gonna happen
but I do try very hard
and would love to hear what you think.
Alright guys, thanks for watching
and I'll talk to you later.
My next video's about flat Earth,
that's all I'm gonna say.
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